Feinting multiple opponents

[Ibn Sina]

In a fight against multiple foes would it be possible to feint all of them?
For example:
Fighter A against fighters B and C.
fighter A has multiple attacks and feints as the last action of his turn.
In the next turn, he attacks once each one of his foes.
Feint would prejudice the defence of both enemies?
Or Fighter A should declare feint against only one of them.
Thanks!

[ravenfish]

All the rules for feinting talk about "your opponent" (singular), so it seems that a feint is intended to be used against only one target at a time. Of course, if you can make multiple attacks per round, there is nothing preventing you from feinting multiple targets in a round (and gaining the respective benefits when attacking any or all of them on the next round).

[Pursuivant]

I'd allow it in a cinematic campaign, but perhaps with a -2 penalty per opponent after the first (-2 being the standard penalty for "multi-tasking").

The feinter rolls once, then each opponent rolls to resist, then success or failure in each individual Quick Contest is resolved.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I'd allow it in a cinematic campaign, but perhaps with a -2 penalty per opponent after the first (-2 being the standard penalty for "multi-tasking").

The feinter rolls once, then each opponent rolls to resist, then success or failure in each individual Quick Contest is resolved.

Yeah, or just use an Attack for each Feint.
Conceptually though a feint is fooling people into thinking you are going to strike where you are not in hopes of catching the opponent off guard.
So that seems reasonable against multiple people and then you make your actual attack on the one who looks most off balance or out of line to block/parry.
Another option is to use Enhanced Tracking here. Not for multiple feints themselves but to keep an eye on multiple people such that you know who is the best to attack.

[mlangsdorf]

I've just used one attack turns into one feint per opponent, and then allocated my attacks appropriately.

Last session I was running featured some multi-armed bone golems with Extra Attack 5, so they would feint 3 people with individual contests and then attack each of them once, using up all 6 attacks. It kept the PCs on their toes but was simple to track.

[Varyon]

Here's a potential idea.

When making a Feint, specify if you're only trying to force an opening against the target or if you're looking for anyone to leave an opening (for example, someone might try to move in to do a Sacrificial Parry, or try to take advantage of your apparent focus on someone else to make an attack against you). In the former case, the Feint is handled normally. In the latter case, you take a penalty to the Feint equal to the number of foes affected (including the original target). Additionally, only the original target is subjected to the full penalty from the Feint - everyone else is at half the penalty. With this option in play, you can buy Feint above Prerequisite+4, but this only allows you to negate the penalty for Feinting against multiple foes at once.

Further options are available. A cinematic Advantage, Enhanced Feinting* [5], means the secondary targets suffer the full penalty rather than having it halved. Enhanced Tracking reduces the number of foes present for purposes of determining the penalty on a one-for-one basis (so Enhanced Tracking 2 means you treat up to 3 foes as though it were just 1 at +0, 4 as though there were 2 at -2, 5 as though there were 3 at -3, etc); note unless you have a lot of combat skills it's typically more efficient to buy up Feint (but the additional benefits of Enhanced Tracking may make it worth it, particularly if using the rule suggested in the other thread of a successful Feint - regardless of how well the target resists - counting as a free use of Evaluate). If you want your Feint to look like it's targeting multiple foes at once, just do multiple Feints using Dual Weapon Attack, Rapid Strike, Extra Attack, etc (this has the side benefit that each foe also has to roll to resist an incidental Feint and you take their worst result - someone might successfully identify the attack against them as a Feint but think the attack against their ally is a real attack and react accordingly, potentially leaving themselves open).

*[5] is an eyeballed price, adjust as is appropriate for your campaign. It should have Trained by a Master, Weapon Master, or similar as a prerequisite.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

All the rules for feinting talk about "your opponent" (singular), so it seems that a feint is intended to be used against only one target at a time. Of course, if you can make multiple attacks per round, there is nothing preventing you from feinting multiple targets in a round (and gaining the respective benefits when attacking any or all of them on the next round).

If the GM is strictly sticking to Basic, you can only ever make a single feint in a given turn, either as the Feint maneuver or as part of an AOA (Feint). All other ways to gain additional attacks are literally additional attacks.

Freely exchanging attacks with feints freely is an optional rule in Martial Arts, even though it's a relatively straightforward one that is neither going to break balance nor realism. At least, no more than reliably getting multiple attacks per turn already would.

[Plane]

This makes me wonder about the duration of feints, something I think that came up when thinking about altered time rates.

Like if you have decreased time rate and your feint lasts until you make your attack in your following turn - it's basically lasting 2 seconds instead of the usual 1 second... whereas if you have the doubled advantage then it'd only be lasting half a second?

Like I wonder if somehow it should be a fixed duration of some sort on the foe, maybe even lasting multiple attacks in that case?

[Flowergarden]

Originally Posted by Plane

This makes me wonder about the duration of feints, something I think that came up when thinking about altered time rates.

Like if you have decreased time rate and your feint lasts until you make your attack in your following turn - it's basically lasting 2 seconds instead of the usual 1 second... whereas if you have the doubled advantage then it'd only be lasting half a second?

Like I wonder if somehow it should be a fixed duration of some sort on the foe, maybe even lasting multiple attacks in that case?

Just use afflicted enemy speed. And question, can you feint without moving at your enemy speed?