[DF] What PC classes at TL 8?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Is there any particular reason they would change? This particular division of roles doesn't seem to be particularly technology dependent. As long as the magic system doesn't change anyway. I'm not sure you need to do anything beyond replacing many of the weapon skills with Guns/TL8, assuming guns work against monsters. Admittedly guns are so much more deadly that many supposedly challenging combat encounters become trivial even for amateurs, but that just means any dungeons that still need adventurers to clear would've been really high level in the old days....

It's a big genre in Korea, and there bullets just don't work very well against the monsters because they don't really have internal organs

[stranger38]

Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker

The Scout could probably be roughly the same - including the name - but focused on modern firearms.

The Thief would have to change a bit and become part-artificer to deal with high-tech security systems. Keeping some facility with blades will be handy, because of their silence, but some firearms training would also be needed. You could call the role Agent, which is generic enough and arguably a better fit than Thief.

Thieves would be those high shcool kids from bad homes. Knife, plenty of Streetwise and knife, lots of knife and some Brawling.

The Barbarian would probably morph into some kind of heavy weapons/explosives kind of role, probably with some mechanical aptitude on the sweat and grease side. That way you'd keep the dangerous high-damage stuff and keeping things moving in the countryside when vehicles break down. The role could keep some very basic nature stuff like survival, navigation and weather sense, but it would be more tech-oriented. You could call it Heavy or if you want to emphasise the tech side Mechanic.

To me, Barbarian is the Big guy from Furious Fists, but so big and beefy that hundguns would not suffice.

The Knight would need to fill the role of the versatile warrior, again with a focus on modern firearms. It'll probably be a bit of a pain to clearly define the role between the Scout and Heavy, but the focus would be close combat without area damage and tactical oversight. The Knight already has some leadership potential and this would probably increase in a modern-day setting. Throw in a few social skills like Intimidation and Teaching and call the role Sergeant.

My thoughts are similar. The knight is just a soldier.

For the Swashbuckler it does get tricky. They are about flamboyance and speed so maybe some kind of handgun-slinging might be called for? It might be better to focus on the acrobatics of the role and call it the Traceur with the handgun stuff thrown in as an afterthought to jumping, kicking and such.

Traceur with hundgun or not even that. Just knife and stab away

The Martial Artist would encroach on that territory, but eschew guns in favour of looking harmless. Throw in some acting and fast-talk and they could become a ninja-type infiltration expert.

Martial artists would use any of those templates in martial arts.

The Holy Warrior could be kept mostly as is and be an expert at disposing of monsters that cannot be touched by modern weaponry - carrying a handgun as backup, of course. Or they could go full-on Slayer route.

Cannot think any diffrerent here.

Bard, Wizard, Druid and Cleric mainly need some reskinning and some slight skill changes - assuming I read you correctly and magic is still around.

Bard = egirl!

wizard = Harry!

druid = don`t have a modern equivalent in mind right now.

I'd like to echo Michael Thayne's thought and include Action's Background Lenses. They are very useful in a modern-day setting.

just to make it longer to post

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's a big genre in Korea, and there bullets just don't work very well against the monsters because they don't really have internal organs

In a setting I came up with a long time back, I wanted an excuse for characters to use swords instead of guns against an alien invasion in a modern setting. What I ultimately settled on was creatures that had a large number of redundant organs with fairly solid regeneration and being able to quickly close up relatively-small holes to prevent bleedouts - but a sword would leave a long gash that wouldn't be able to heal as readily and would bleed profusely (you need a lot of blood flow to support all those redundant organs). Firearms could be used, but you need a pretty ridiculous amount of firepower on target to reliably take one down, while a good swordsman could potentially take one down with a single strike (although typically you'd need a few).

In GURPS terms, it would probably some level of IT:DR with Bane: Cutting or similar.

For the "don't actually have internal organs" option, that can be handled fairly readily with Injury Tolerance: Unliving or Homogenous, depending on the particulars. I'd probably suggest Fragile: Unnatural as well for these kinds of "artificial monsters," based on the description (I don't think I've seen any of the relevant bits of Korean media; I used to read Solo Leveling, but there the monsters were all just ridiculously powerful unless facing people chosen by the System but otherwise seemed to have functional organs and all that; an interesting bit there was the fact that personal abilities mattered very little compared to System ones - one character is amongst the best swordsmen in Korea, and personally trained one of the high-ranking heroes, but was assigned a magic-using class and thus is pretty much useless using a sword against monsters or even other chosen humans).

... but all that may not apply for what OP is looking at. I will note that if you're dealing with indoors areas (which is typical of dungeons), you're probably going to want suppressors on any firearms, as well as some ear protection. Considering suppressors tend to boost the Bulk of weapons*, in conjunction with the close confines of a typical dungeon, you may well find melee weapons are more useful than they'd initially seem. Although if you can replace a mundane suppressor with a silencing enchantment of some flavor that could certainly change things.

*Arguably, an integral suppressor can avoid this, but I think incorporating such reduces the functional barrel length of the weapon, so you could probably get nearly the same effect by using a shorter barrel and a can.

[stranger38]

Originally Posted by Varyon

In a setting I came up with a long time back, I wanted an excuse for characters to use swords instead of guns against an alien invasion in a modern setting. What I ultimately settled on was creatures that had a large number of redundant organs with fairly solid regeneration and being able to quickly close up relatively-small holes to prevent bleedouts - but a sword would leave a long gash that wouldn't be able to heal as readily and would bleed profusely (you need a lot of blood flow to support all those redundant organs). Firearms could be used, but you need a pretty ridiculous amount of firepower on target to reliably take one down, while a good swordsman could potentially take one down with a single strike (although typically you'd need a few).

In GURPS terms, it would probably some level of IT:DR with Bane: Cutting or similar.

For the "don't actually have internal organs" option, that can be handled fairly readily with Injury Tolerance: Unliving or Homogenous, depending on the particulars. I'd probably suggest Fragile: Unnatural as well for these kinds of "artificial monsters," based on the description (I don't think I've seen any of the relevant bits of Korean media; I used to read Solo Leveling, but there the monsters were all just ridiculously powerful unless facing people chosen by the System but otherwise seemed to have functional organs and all that; an interesting bit there was the fact that personal abilities mattered very little compared to System ones - one character is amongst the best swordsmen in Korea, and personally trained one of the high-ranking heroes, but was assigned a magic-using class and thus is pretty much useless using a sword against monsters or even other chosen humans).

... but all that may not apply for what OP is looking at. I will note that if you're dealing with indoors areas (which is typical of dungeons), you're probably going to want suppressors on any firearms, as well as some ear protection. Considering suppressors tend to boost the Bulk of weapons*, in conjunction with the close confines of a typical dungeon, you may well find melee weapons are more useful than they'd initially seem. Although if you can replace a mundane suppressor with a silencing enchantment of some flavor that could certainly change things.

*Arguably, an integral suppressor can avoid this, but I think incorporating such reduces the functional barrel length of the weapon, so you could probably get nearly the same effect by using a shorter barrel and a can.

Had a similar idea. There was that D20 modern book apocalypse. one of the scenarios was that rapture happened, people were sent to where they supose to go and the rest stayed.

But there was demons and angels around. in the original scenario, you could do damage with everything. in my version, only fire and melee and/or muscle powered ranged weapons could hurt the angels/demons, because they were creatures of old

[Flowergarden]

Just say that all monsters are water based creatures so they have aura that creates phantom water (not wet, ignores gravity), that stops bullets because... Physics. That would probably change everything too much, but sounds funny)

It's like... Just give everyone Dune shield or something like shields that are too slow, like that materials that become hard when you strike it. But it's lame, I use it, but still lame
Or make everyone strong and give DR for free. Okay, it's a little bit too Korean. Like that litRPG or cultivation ranobe.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Flowergarden

Just say that all monsters are water based creatures so they have aura that creates phantom water (not wet, ignores gravity), that stops bullets because... Physics. That would probably change everything too much, but sounds funny)

It's like... Just give everyone Dune shield or something like shields that are too slow, like that materials that become hard when you strike it. But it's lame, I use it, but still lame
Or make everyone strong and give DR for free. Okay, it's a little bit too Korean. Like that litRPG or cultivation ranobe.

Here's an adapted* version of something I considered for another setting.

Many creatures produce a magical barrier that protects them from injury but can be ablated away. These barriers can interfere with and negate each other. For those without proper training, this means the barriers do not function in unarmed combat. Sapient characters can learn to project the barrier to a limited extent, allowing it to apply to melee weapons or even ranged ones. However, this is more difficult for ranged weapons and further requires physical contact with the projectile shortly before it is launched.

In GURPS terms, this is Flexible Semi-Ablative Force-Field DR - although I prefer ablating 1 DR per 5 damage stopped rather than 1 per 10. The negation effect works at Reach C without issue (which also means it works fine for Reach C weapons like small knives). Having it apply to longer weapons calls for training, represented by a leveled trait worth [1]/level; the first level lets it apply to Reach 1 weapons, the next to Reach 2, then 3, 4, 5, etc. Being able to apply it to ranged weapons calls for a trait worth [5]; this allows it to work out to 50 yards, but each [1] invested in the prior training also increases this by 1 step on the Size and Speed/Range Table (70, 100, 150, 200, etc). For the necessary contact to imbue the projectile with the shield, for most muscle-powered ranged weapons you'll either naturally be in contact with the projectile or it's a simple matter to touch it just prior to projecting it. For things where this isn't as practical, such as slings and firearms, you need to make the attack within 5 seconds of last having contact with the projectile. This means you could make use of it for a single shot if you've just loaded the round in, but trying for more than that is unlikely (you might be able to have a custom magazine that exposes the tips of the rounds to get around this, but that's going to invite malfunctions in sub-optimal conditions).

Optionally, a weakened shield - or being up against a foe with a stronger shield than is typical - might make it harder for you to bypass the target's own shield. Every 1 DR remaining of your shield negates 2 DR of the target's. Note this means that with two characters with shields that are normally equal in strength, one needs to be reduced below 50% for this to come into play.

As for how much DR to start out with, that's up to the GM. Considering it typically is only going to come into play against firearms, traps, etc, you may be inclined to go fairly high. Personally, however, I'd probably start it out at 5 or so and test out how it affects things there. If you allow characters to buy it up (or down) it should be worth [3.5] per DR - Damage Resistance (Force Field +20%; Flexible -20%; Semi-Ablative, 1:5 -30%). This is reduced to [3] per DR if Magical -10% applies (that is, it's dependent on mana and is susceptible to anti-magic). I'm assuming here that the ability to negate another's shield and your own susceptibility to negation is a net +0%, although it could be argued to be a net Limitation.


*The original version is something that makes it harder to actually hit the target in the first place, particularly if they're moving. That's a lot more complex than the above, however.

[Flowergarden]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Here's an adapted* version of something I considered for another setting.

I think about something like that for magocracy setting. But without the option to add it to range weapons.
But it's more of a anti ranged barrier with a twist)
I suppose I took the idea from some... Anime? I never watched. I just been browsing through TV tropes and found it.

The thing I don't understand is why you need that system, if anybody can just buy a very cheap trait to ignore it. It would be okay if you ask for a perk to use it up to reach 2 or 4 for melee weapons. But with ranged up to any range... It's just CR now (trait you should definitely take on a fighting character).

Edit: what I meant by that is your system was good, before ranged weapons come into play. Optional rule is cool, I should say

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Flowergarden

The thing I don't understand is why you need that system, if anybody can just buy a very cheap trait to ignore it. It would be okay if you ask for a perk to use it up to reach 2 or 4 for melee weapons. But with ranged up to any range... It's just CR now (trait you should definitely take on a fighting character).

The pricing was just suggestions, and part of the intent is that only people who are dedicated combatants would take them. An average conscript or bandit probably wouldn't have any form of it, although those who manage to survive a number of combats will probably gain the ability to project it up to Reach 1 or 2. I'm also not certain on the Ranged part of it; part of me wants to have the base [5] only be enough for a 15 yard Range (rather than the suggested 50), and [+1] per +1 SSR (20, 30, 50, etc) beyond that.

So, anybody can negate a foe's shield at Reach C. Those who have undergone more serious combat training - those with Combat Reflexes would certainly qualify (unless they've opted to just stick to unarmed combat) - are likely to be able to project the ability out to Reach 1, 2, or possibly further. More dedicated ranged combatants know how to project it with a ranged attack, out to some Range depending on how much work they've put into it... but for those using firearms, this also typically requires them to load the bullet just before firing, limiting the time they have to act (and also meaning you're probably restricted to a breechloader of some flavor). It was originally going to be "-1 per +1 Reach melee, double Range penalties, but you can buy off these penalties with a Technique" when I first started writing the post, but I decided to make the "Techniques" apply to all attacks, at which point they should be an independent trait rather than a Technique.

The shield also protects against things like traps and trap-like hazards. And, of course, in a DF setting you're likely only going to have Worthies and Bosses who can project the shield (so the characters will be better protected against fodder with ranged weapons - or even those who are using Reach 1+ weapons). Furthermore, even with a foe who can project their shield, there's the possibility of wearing it down to the point where it only weakens your own rather than negating it, if using that option (experimentation would be necessary to determine if doubling is appropriate, of course - it may well be that having the DR subtract out 1-for-1 is a better paradigm). But we've probably taken this tangent a bit too far for this thread; I may give the system more refinement and post it as its own thread.

[weby]

Depends on the specifics of the world, but so possible ways to do this in Gurps are:

Most obvious: monster hunters.
But this is of course 400 points to quite a lot higher than standard dungeon fantasy and depending on opponents the modern tech might be kind of overpowering.

Then there is the Monster hunters side kicks. The 200 point templates could work pretty well as such. Adding +50 points from action specialists could work if you want 250 points.

Then there are the action based things, they would need the methods to deal with supernatural and magic. So likely the specialts route with the extra templates from that pyramid article could work. The base templates would need more tweaking if you wanted to use them.

Then there is of course the rewriting of the DF templates or just building new ones from scrach, but Monster hunters, with the possible switch of magic system to classic Gurps magic could work best.

[fula farbrorn]

I have run over a hundred different Modern Fantasy campaigns, everything from Policing in a modern city to England invades Narnia in the 1890s

Most of the time having "classes" goes away outside of Spellcasters, some guy armors up with extra armor and thats your tank, another guy has dead eye and so on.

As for enemies, they gotta adapt too, Skeleton with a spear might be dangerous, but Skeletons behind a Maxim gun thats gonna be 5x as dangerous