What's the divide between kicks and punches?

[Sam Baughn]

A standard humanoid character has two arms and two legs. Unarmed strikes with the arms are punches, with the legs, kicks. That's pretty clear.
What happens when you start adding different traits?
Remove the arms with No Fine Manipulators. Presumably the legs still kick like they always did. So an ostrich can only kick, not punch.
What about if the legs become foot manipulators? Does a hawk kick or punch with its feet? What about a monkey?
What if you're semi-upright? Do your front limbs punch and your hind-limbs kick? What if some of them are foot manipulators?
What if you're a quadruped? Do you still punch with your front legs, or are those now kicks because they are legs?
What if you've got No Fine Manipulators but you still have some kind of limb which is neither a manipulator (and so not an arm) or used for walking (so not a leg)? For example, wings, or an amputee's stumps. Can you make any attack with them without buying them as strikers?
Do claws or hooves change any of these?

My instincts say that every strike with a leg (no matter whether it is a foot manipulator, or an Extra Leg) is a kick and only strikes with arms (not including foot manipulators, but including the forelimbs of semi-upright characters) count as punches.
But this seems to be contradicted by published material: the non-humanoid monsters from the Dungeon Fantasy and Monster Hunters series all seem to have claw attacks based on punches even when they have No Fine Manipulators (and often Horizontal). The only exception I can find is in Dungeon Fantasy Monsters 4: Dragons, where front claws seem to be punches and hind claws kicks. So, the actual rules seem to be something like 'all manipulators (including foot manipulators and the front limbs of anything with semi-upright) punch, as do the front limbs of anything with NFM and more than two legs. Humanoid legs and the hind legs of many-legged creatures kick.' Is that accurate? How about bipeds with no manipulators (e.g. ostriches)?

[Tyneras]

Biologically, humans sacrificed explosive muscle power for fine motor control, it's why we are about 1/3 as strong as animals of equal muscle mass (it's a nervous system change, not a change to the muscle tissue itself). So I'd say any limb capable of fine motor control is a "puncher" and any that isn't is a "kicker".

Of course, if physiology is alien enough, this may not apply at all.

[zoncxs]

If the limb is used to stand/walk/run on for extended periods, that is to say the muscles are built for carrying a lot of weight, then call it a "Kick".

Animals, like apes, that can "walk" on all four do have a preference towards their hind legs, they can't hold a handstand for very long but can obviously stand up on two legs for hours if need be.


GURPS wise, a punch has -1 to damage which is the same as -2 striking ST while a kick does not have that. So if you want to define a race as having the ability to "punch" with there legs because the legs ARE arms, then just give them -2 striking ST (Kicks Only, -60%) [-4] and be done OR +4 Striking ST (Punches Only, -60%) [8] or something like that.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Sam Baughn

Remove the arms with No Fine Manipulators.

I always like the idea of that just removing the hands for -30.

Given you could just take the combination of One Arm (-20) and One Hand (-15) to be stuck with one handless arm for -35, -40 sound about right for no arms at all, and maybe maybe give another -5 for each missing leg to get to -50 for No Manipulators?

You can presumably stack -50 for No Manipulators with the -30 for Legless since Quadriplegic is worth -80.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Animals, like apes, that can "walk" on all four do have a preference towards their hind legs, they can't hold a handstand for very long but can obviously stand up on two legs for hours if need be.

A lot of quadrupeds have more power in their hind legs than in their front legs, or at least are capable of stronger kicks with the former. Horses and cats come to mind, as do dogs. I suspect it largely has to do with jumping, but the way running works (which I think is largely propelled by the rear legs, with the front being useful for stability and steering) probably plays a roll. So, it wouldn't be outlandish to treat many animals as "punching" with their front legs and "kicking" with their back legs. That's something up to the GM if he wants that sort of distinction (and, if included in character templates, if he wants the norm for the front legs to be kicks or punches, and if being outside the norm is worth an Advantage or Disadvantage).