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Old 10-28-2021, 03:57 PM   #11
howitzer7
 
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Default Re: Combat Showcase 2037

For clarity, a "brace" means two of something.
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Old 10-30-2021, 04:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Combat Showcase 2037

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
Why do I need to find it again? Or Why was it never published? Or Why did it have a brace of FGs?
Why FG? I found it a weapon with absolutely no redeeming features.
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Old 10-31-2021, 01:38 PM   #13
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Why FG? I found it a weapon with absolutely no redeeming features.
It's for scenarios involving Lots Of Pedestrians -- if one doesn't play those, then the FG isn't useful for much than "cheap tire-shredder" (and in our arenas, "no aimed tire shots" was the rule, so...).
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Old 10-31-2021, 05:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Combat Showcase 2037

For lots of pedestrians I would use Frag Grenades (or flechette if I was worried about my paint work). You catch a lot more in a 2" radius burst than in an area effect. You don't even need to be that accurate, anywhere within an inch is plenty good enough.

You can go passenger* equipped with a GL to a firing port (my preferred choice), a vehicle mounted GL (too bulky) or heck even just toss them out of the firing port (though that natural 2 is always a worry).

If you can't be bothered aiming flechette dischargers always hit. With large vehicles you get many overlapping arcs that shred anything. Of course they are only one-shot but nothing says "get off'n my tank" more unequivocally.

When considering the FG I'd prefer to spend a couple of hundred more and buy an LMG (or frankly a MG). At least that can fire through cover, blast away riot shields and the like and not be a one-trick pony.

The FG would need to be much cheaper or lighter for it to find its way into one of my designs, similarly the VS. Both offer interesting features, but they are not good enough to be competitive at the price and weight.

*Basically a passenger takes the same space and weight as a FG and they are free. They also provide an additional firing action (which could be used to trigger an PFE) Equipping them with an effective anti-ped weapon should be easy. Even a double barrel shotgun without upgrades stacks up pretty well against an FG, 4 points damage is enough to injure someone in BA. A rifle with anti-personnel ammo is only $5 per shot and it guarantees 6 points of damage per hit against peds ($5 defeats $1500 in IBA). Or if you want to go overboard, an SMG with extended mag, laser scope and hollow points is a shade more expensive per shot (though, does the same damage as the FG, has the same to hit and can do half damage to vehicular components. A big chunk of the cost is in the scope which is used to offset the ped firing in a moving car penalty. For an extra $360 overall you get real damage, the option to buy extra mags that take no space (but cost a bit more), and an independent firing action.

You lose the area effect, but I rarely encounter peds that are dumb enough to stand close enough for it to ever be an option.

Last edited by swordtart; 11-01-2021 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 11-01-2021, 12:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: Combat Showcase 2037

The FG doesn't work because of wheelguards. It's okay against pedestrians where you're trying to avoid 'collateral damage'.

My solution would be to get rid the FG altogether and have VSGs do double damage to pedestrians and tires, and permit them to use AP ammo (flechette rounds).

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The FG would need to be much cheaper or lighter for it to find its way into one of my designs, similarly the VS. Both offer interesting features, but they are not good enough to be competitive at the price and weight.

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Old 11-01-2021, 02:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Combat Showcase 2037

Odd that FGs would be brought up in the thread -- the _Nightstick_, and _Manslaughter_, both appear in _CS_, and they have FGs.

I suppose A-p MGs are a slightly-better choice -- heavier, but still AV-capable.
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Old 11-02-2021, 12:47 AM   #17
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The FG doesn't work because of wheelguards. It's okay against pedestrians where you're trying to avoid 'collateral damage'.

My solution would be to get rid the FG altogether and have VSGs do double damage to pedestrians and tires, and permit them to use AP ammo (flechette rounds).
I think I'd like to see a way of mounting ped weapons on vehicle mounts. You should be able to mount multiple weapons for a single space. I don't mean the articulated mount, I mean a full powered mount aimed using the vehicle systems (and so using gunner skill and benefitting from the vehicle targeting systems etc.) I don't think there was anything published like this.

If you extrapolate from the tripod rule then vehicle mounted hand weapons would weigh twice as much as usual to account for the traverse mechanism. A single space should be able to mount up to 6 GE of hand weapons and magazines. Cost should be 10% extra (plus any links needed). Most upgrades wouldn't work, but explicitly the LTS is not permitted on vehicle mounted hand weapons.

That would mean you could mount 3 linked shotguns with extended magazines. It would cost $605 loaded, would weigh 55lb and take up one space. That would be reasonable in my book. 20 shots per gun with a possible 6 points of ped or tire per firing action.

Some of the ped weapons might break the basic premise (thinking the AV rifles* and the GL particularly) and make the conventional weapons less attractive, but I suspect the cost might be prohibitive (plus ped weapons tend to be a little less accurate).

*HAVR with 2 extra magazines would cost $1290 loaded, weigh 85lb and take 1 space. It would hold 30 shots. This is pretty powerful for a 1 space weapon even when needing an 8 to hit.

Last edited by swordtart; 11-02-2021 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:35 PM   #18
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*HAVR with 2 extra magazines would cost $1290 loaded, weigh 85lb and take 1 space. It would hold 30 shots. This is pretty powerful for a 1 space weapon even when needing an 8 to hit.
You've hit on the problem here: When ped-carried weapons become far more efficient than "proper" vehicle weapons....

My INS-series Div. 5 subcompacts were infamous for this, esp. the INS-4P (Passenger w/ HAVR)....
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Old 11-02-2021, 01:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Combat Showcase 2037

The HAVR is clearly broken

But the pedestrian GL with impact fuses is still king - it's as good as a two space vehicular weapon (except it has 5 shots)

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You've hit on the problem here: When ped-carried weapons become far more efficient than "proper" vehicle weapons....

My INS-series Div. 5 subcompacts were infamous for this, esp. the INS-4P (Passenger w/ HAVR)....
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Old 11-02-2021, 03:39 PM   #20
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The HAVR is clearly broken
That was my conclusion.

I would have preferred it they just tweaked the AV ammo rather than introduce a new weapon. I kept it but toned it down a touch by allowing it to upgrade the damage type by 1 level (1/2 damage to full damage, tyre and ped only to 1/2 damage). Still 15x cost. A $15 pistol round that does 1 point of damage to vehicles doesn't sound over powered. Just one shot from an SMG would cost $180. A few of them and you can afford a proper weapon.

It also occurs that they dropped the AV ammo for rifles as it did 3 points damage in a hand weapon (for $15 per pop). But then they introduced the AR which can do 3 points of damage and CPS is ... er $15. So what was the issue?

When a single shot from a ped weapon does as much damage as an MG then you have over cooked it. If the HAVR were single shot and each shot was a GE then maybe. But it exists so I guess we'll use it.

Last edited by swordtart; 11-02-2021 at 03:45 PM.
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