Spell Level Clarification

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Zimzerveran

So, must I buy 3-Hex Fire and then buy 7-Hex fire at character creation if I want to start with 7-Hex Fire?

What about Staff? Do I buy Staff I, II, and III and then buy IV?

The per-hex creation spells have always included the smaller sizes when purchased from first edition. There is no additional memory point cost for the multihex versions, but these are different spells which require study.

The new staff levels in Legacy each depend on knowing the lower levels, bought at one memory point per level. And you can't cheat this with scroll or cast from book because neither of these methods enable the creation of a magical item.

[JustAnotherJarhead]

Originally Posted by Zimzerveran

So, is there an official ruling on this for the Legacy Edition? I might be conflating this with Gurps magic, which has prerequisites you must pay for.

So, must I buy 3-Hex Fire and then buy 7-Hex fire at character creation if I want to start with 7-Hex Fire?

What about Staff? Do I buy Staff I, II, and III and then buy IV?

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Side Note: 3 people from Maine in this thread. What are the chances?
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Exactly the question of the day!

I am totally opposed to anything that causes a wizard to HAVE to spend more IQ points than necessary, I want my wizards to have a wide selection of magic to choose from, and I can't even imagine having my Starting high IQ wizard that puts everything into IQ at great sacrifice to master magic, and making him pay 4 points to have his Staff IV spell. He put the points into IQ already, I am not gonna charge him twice by forcing him to surrender 3 additional spells (and high IQ at that) because I think he needs to pay for staff I,II & III as well.

You got the balls to start with IQ15 and low ST and low DX, you get Staff IV and all the IQ 15 spells you want to sacrifice for.

You are a wizard! You are to be feared.

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherJarhead

I am totally opposed to anything that causes a wizard to HAVE to spend more IQ points than necessary, I want my wizards to have a wide selection of magic to choose from, and I can't even imagine having my Starting high IQ wizard that puts everything into IQ at great sacrifice to master magic, and making him pay 4 points to have his Staff IV spell. He put the points into IQ already, I am not gonna charge him twice by forcing him to surrender 3 additional spells (and high IQ at that) because I think he needs to pay for staff I,II & III as well.

Which is fine for a house-rule, but it clearly isn't RAW.

"Each level of Staff is a prerequisite to the next."
ITL page 18

[Oneiros]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The per-hex creation spells have always included the smaller sizes when purchased from first edition. There is no additional memory point cost for the multihex versions, but these are different spells which require study.

It's hard to tell from your phrasing, but what's your take on the following scenario:

Bob the Wizard with IQ 15 knows 3-Hex Fire. Per the rules, he knows the lower IQ, base one-hex version of Fire for free.

Bob spends XP to increase his IQ to 16. At that point, does Bob just get 7-Hex Fire for free, because he already knows 3-Hex fire, or does he also need to expend XP to learn the higher IQ 7-Hex version?

(If you agree with the "it's free" option, then I'm not clear on your statement "but these are different spells which require study.")

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Oneiros

(If you agree with the "it's free" option, then I'm not clear on your statement "but these are different spells which require study.")

The study rules have been omitted from Legacy.
First edition ITL page 16 had "However, a figure cannot just increase his IQ and suddenly gain a new ability "out of the blue" — he must have studied it."
Legacy ITL page 144: "It is assumed that the wizard has been practicing the new spells as he goes along; they may be used immediately."

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Oneiros

Bob spends XP to increase his IQ to 16. At that point, does Bob just get 7-Hex Fire for free, because he already knows 3-Hex fire, or does he also need to expend XP to learn the higher IQ 7-Hex version?

No, he has to spend XP to learn the new spell after spending XP to increase IQ.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Zimzerveran

So, is there an official ruling on this for the Legacy Edition? I might be conflating this with Gurps magic, which has prerequisites you must pay for.

So, must I buy 3-Hex Fire and then buy 7-Hex fire at character creation if I want to start with 7-Hex Fire?

What about Staff? Do I buy Staff I, II, and III and then buy IV?

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Side Note: 3 people from Maine in this thread. What are the chances?
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Hi,
The rules are clear that multihex creation spells are not prerequisites. This is what we is clear:
- if you start with a multihex creation spell, you get the lesser instances for free
- staff spells are treated differently than creation spells in that they ARE prerequisites it order to learn later versions.

The question brought up in this thread is not about new character creation but later on. That is, if your character with 3-Hex Fire finally achieves an IQ able to learn 7-Hex Fire, does he then get it for free?

I hope this helps answer your question.

For the thread's question, we seem to have different opinions. I like making it free forward and back.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Hi,
The rules are clear that multihex creation spells are not prerequisites...
That is, if your character with 3-Hex Fire finally achieves an IQ able to learn 7-Hex Fire, does he then get it for free?

That's exactly how I always saw it too Axyl. Or put like this:

There is only one Fire spell.
There is only one Wall spell.
There is only one Shadow spell.

How large you can make one of those things depends on how smart you (the characters) are, but there is no second or third version of any of these spells to be learned, even if you wanted to.