Tolkienite Military Fiction

[jason taylor]

In any case we do have the details for the Rohan army which is surprisingly regimentalized for a "heroic" army. We know the Gondorian army uses sub-units because they talk of the third company of the guard, etc. We have some ways to speculate how the Dwarves fight in other resources which we mostly invented but are really not incompatible with canon. Dwarven axes probably look a lot like a Roman Dolabra (the curved part is a useful crowbar and a butt spike is easy to add), and Dwarves would love the Thieves Chain, though they are never shown carrying one.

We aren't shown naval combat unfortunately but we can make up for that.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Because the first thing he did after WWI was head for Oxford, not the Northwest Frontier. What makes you think he could learn to be a John Keegan or a Wavell in 11 months?

You are the only one in this conversation to mention Keegan or Wavell. You are also the only one in this conversation to insist that Tolkien went to war as a barely trained officer wholly ignorant about war. What do you think he was trained in during those 11 months, which by the way were not at Oxford?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

You are the only one in this conversation to mention Keegan or Wavell. You are also the only one in this conversation to insist that Tolkien went to war as a barely trained officer wholly ignorant about war. What do you think he was trained in during those 11 months, which by the way were not at Oxford?

That's a false either/or. Being qualified to be an infantry officer does not make you qualified to know Medieval military history.Nor does it mean you are qualified in operations and strategy. It means you are qualified specifically to be an infantry officer.

For instance I seem to recall a well regarded infantry junior officer in American history whose performance as an infantry junior officer was impeccable. The thing is he managed to start a world war by accident while performing as a quite effective infantry junior officer. That is because he was not yet qualified in international brinkmanship, a skill he became better at when he had a somewhat higher rank. Just like saying Tolkien was a good junior officer does not say he learned strategy, and operations (which he deals with reasonably), let alone logistics which he barely deals with. I simply think it more plausible that he learned a lot of his later knowledge on his own initiative. Come to think of it so did said well regarded infantry officer.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

In any case we do have the details for the Rohan army which is surprisingly regimentalized for a "heroic" army.

The Rohirrim had been living in proximity and close alliance to a more advanced society (Gondor) for centuries by the time of the War of the Ring. So it's not entirely surprising that they would pick some more 'sophisticated' organizational habits from the association.

[Stormcrow]

One must also not fall into the trap of thinking that because they seem like Anglo-Saxons that they are Anglo-Saxons. Tolkien was adamant that they weren't. If that means different martial techniques, then that's what they have.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

The Rohirrim had been living in proximity and close alliance to a more advanced society (Gondor) for centuries by the time of the War of the Ring. So it's not entirely surprising that they would pick some more 'sophisticated' organizational habits from the association.

True enough though traces of it seem to have existed before Eorl's ride. In any case it is interesting because people always assume them to be wearing an early medieval hat.

Actually though the comparison is not often made, Rohirrim rather resemble Rajputs in being a famously horsey people, and Nepal in being an allied but independent kingdom.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

One must also not fall into the trap of thinking that because they seem like Anglo-Saxons that they are Anglo-Saxons. Tolkien was adamant that they weren't. If that means different martial techniques, then that's what they have.

For Teutons who fought as cavalry one needs Goths or even Russ. But they also have organizational an social differences.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

For instance I seem to recall a well regarded infantry junior officer in American history whose performance as an infantry junior officer was impeccable. The thing is he managed to start a world war by accident while performing as a quite effective infantry junior officer. ... Come to think of it so did said well regarded infantry officer.

Sorry, what?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

Sorry, what?

The point is that being a qualified infantry officer does not necessarily fit you for other tasks. Mr. Tolkien most likely learned big picture warfare at a library and the qualified infantry officer whose name it amuses me to let you figure out learned it elsewhere as demonstrated by the fact that the later was a flop at first when given more responsibilities than a qualified infantry officer should have and only became competent later, fortunately before he reached the rank at which he would end his respectable career.

Being good at one MOS does not make you good at another.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

The qualified infantry officer whose name it amuses me to let you figure out learned it elsewhere.

The problem is that you're almost certainly using some exotic definition of 'started' or 'world war', as neither WWI nor WWII was started either by accident or by an American military officer.