03-02-2014, 04:59 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
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[Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
So if Alice has 8 cp on Betty, giving her a -4 to ST and DX) does that mean Betty, normally ST 8, can't use the dagger in her hand (mim ST 5)?
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03-02-2014, 05:26 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
That seems to follow, remember you can still use a weapon whose ST you don't meet, but you are at -1 to weapon skill per point of ST you lack and lose one extra FP at the end of any fight that lasts long enough to fatigue you.
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03-02-2014, 05:29 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
I'd say yes, theoretically, but no, in practice...just because it's one more thing to track and not worth the effort.
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03-02-2014, 05:40 PM | #4 | |
Fightin' Round the World
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
Quote:
But also remember 8 CP is equivalent to a maximum-CP grab from Trained ST 17. For a ST 8 person, this should mean serious problems. Striking with a -4 ST and a -4 DX plus a -1 for being unable to leverage the weapon doesn't seem unreasonable. Personally, I wouldn't bother with it, but with the example of 8 CP . . . yeah, that's a lot, and if you're not very strong and/or skilled, it should affect you a lot.
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03-02-2014, 05:48 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
Quote:
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03-02-2014, 07:02 PM | #6 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
Quote:
I think *I* killed that as too fiddly even before my playtesters could get on me for it. But yeah, if you are wielding a weapon and you're being grappled such that you aren't strong enough to meet the ST requirements, you may well take extra penalties. Peter's also correct: 8 CP is no joke. and she'll be -5 to use that weapon, -4 to DX for all other purposes, and effectively ST 4 as well. But in practice, I'd probably just say she's -4 to ST and DX, and get on with it. That -4 to ST can also be leveraged to -4 to swing and -2 to thrust damage with that dagger if you want to go that far. :-)
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03-02-2014, 08:11 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
This question becomes much weightier for someone using a weapon that's closer to their own ST. For example, a ST 12 fighter with a Mace would suffer effectively -8 to skill (-4 DX, and 4 points under Min ST). That kind of rings true to me (if you're already struggling with weapon weight, being grappled will make it that much worse) but I worry that it might not be balanced.
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03-02-2014, 08:14 PM | #8 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
Quote:
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03-03-2014, 12:15 AM | #9 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
Quote:
so we're talking about three sources of penalties: 1). close combat penalties -2 or -4 in this instance 2). -4 to DX so -4 to skill and -4 to hit. 3). -4 to ST would mean 4 below Min St here so another -4 so all in all -10 or -12 that's a lot and the reduction in damage will be also be -4 to ST to calculate Swing and then another -1 on top because he's in Close combat! So if he is ST12 he's going from basic skill and 1d6+5 damage to -10/12 skill and 1d6 damage Obviously a high MinST, reach 1, swung weapon is going to suffer badly here, a MinST 4, C reach thrust Dagger will do better. But then I can't imagine a worse weapon in wrestling than a mace being swung for crushing damage (one being used as a lever to pin, strangle etc might be better of course). However If I was going to have all this I'd probably only count CP directly applied to that particular arm (not referred stuff) but now we are rapidly approaching my personal max threshold of diminishing returns against increased complexity. And even then I'm not sure about doing this you do need your torso to drive arm strength. Personally I can see the argument for doing this, but In reality I think it will be over kill and will further advantage the Strong over the weak. I do like the visual of two chaps each with a knife each with their free hand on the others knife wielding wrist *a hard technique that will cost 5 pts for a reach 1 weapon Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-03-2014 at 04:04 PM. |
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03-03-2014, 03:58 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: [Technical Grappling] Does the ST penalty affect mim ST to use a weapon?
You're already suffering a penalty to DX, which worsens your chance to use the weapon, so a penalty to ST that worsens your chance to use the weapon feels like double-counting (even if it is for two different reasons).
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