Close quarters sniping

[jtsmith1287]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

Sure, just not using a scope!

So, how should this be handled? If a player runs out of ammo with their pistol, and they need to use their only other weapon being a sniper rifle at say, 3 yards... should there be a penalty? I REALLY feel like there should be, but I don't have the slightest idea how I should implement one, or where I might find and official ruling.

EDIT: My page didn't load and I didn't see my question answered. Thanks! I'll take a gander at the tactical thingy.

[jtsmith1287]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

GURPS Tactical Shooting, pages 12-13.

Ok, so being as I am only interested in this one rule, and the book is $13... any chance you could paraphrase the rule enough for me to implement into my campaign? Pretty please with lots of curdled cream and chunky sugar on bottom?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by jtsmith1287

So, how should this be handled? If a player runs out of ammo with their pistol, and they need to use their only other weapon being a sniper rifle at say, 3 yards... should there be a penalty? I REALLY feel like there should be, but I don't have the slightest idea how I should implement one, or where I might find and official ruling.

EDIT: My page didn't load and I didn't see my question answered. Thanks! I'll take a gander at the tactical thingy.

The rules don't provide a penalty for aiming at short range. TBH, there probably shouldn't be a penalty for aiming a scoped weapon at short range...you just wouldn't use the scope, surely. You could still aim, even if the gun has no alternative sights, in the same way as one would aim early firearms that didn't have sights in the first place. This wouldn't give you the full benefit of the weapon's normal acc, though.

(By the same logic, it makes no sense for a gun with broken sights to have acc 0 per TS41. A TL3 gonne has acc 1 and a blunderbuss acc 2. If you filed the sights off your longarm entirely, it wouldn't have acc 0.)

Firing without aiming has always been an option. Tactical Shooting (which makes some significant stealth revisions to the rules) makes it clear that in some cases that constitutes not making any use of sighting apparatus, or even not looking at the gun at all.

[Ultraviolet]

Back in our olden days with 3rd ed SpecOps we had a problem with scopes. Specifically because we had a GM interpret the bonus in GURPS terms a little too beneficial. He allowed us to divide the effective range by the magnification! Claiming it was the same as making the target seem larger. So a player a little too munckkin always used a x20 scope on his M4. Reality check not made, I know!

However we made some way too complex rule about the minimum effective distance a given scope was usable at, based on Magnification.

I like the simpler rules of 4th ed and the minimum time needed to *get* the Aim bonus.
The way I read it you get *no* bonus unless you spend the full time needed to aim. That's why it is beneficial to have a variable power scope. First use the x2, and if you have more time switch to the x8.
Failing to sue the time needed means the scope is useless and you need to make an Unsighted Shot.

[Mathulhu]

When this has come up in our games we used either you get the acc bonus from the scope or its a penalty.

So Acc 4 with a +3 scope aims for one round he gets +4-3= -1 to hit.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Moving into house rule territory, something I've considered is to make a gun's Acc apply only to canceling the range penalty, rather than giving an overall bonus. This gives high-Acc weapons a clear niche at long range, while preventing head-popping aimed shots at point-blank range.

This is so brilliant I marvel that it hasn't already shown up as RAW in some supplement or other.

It does seem, however, that a long arm should have a higher accuracy than a pistol or hold-out weapon when used in close quarters. Maybe amend the house rule to something like "A gun's Acc only applies to canceling range penalties, down to a minimum of its Bulk Penalty. When used to cancel range penalties, it is assumed the gun is held such that its range-penalty-reducing technology is brought to bare. To make use of the "Bluk Acc", one need merely take an Aim maneuver."

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

This is so brilliant I marvel that it hasn't already shown up as RAW in some supplement or other.

It does seem, however, that a long arm should have a higher accuracy than a pistol or hold-out weapon when used in close quarters. Maybe amend the house rule to something like "A gun's Acc only applies to canceling range penalties, down to a minimum of its Bulk Penalty. When used to cancel range penalties, it is assumed the gun is held such that its range-penalty-reducing technology is brought to bare. To make use of the "Bluk Acc", one need merely take an Aim maneuver."

...Uh, how does that benefit long arms? Long arms have larger bulk penalties than pistols.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by jtsmith1287

Ok, so being as I am only interested in this one rule, and the book is $13... any chance you could paraphrase the rule enough for me to implement into my campaign? Pretty please with lots of curdled cream and chunky sugar on bottom?

I think Ulzgoroth covered it, ie you get no bonuses for Acc or sight aids (except "laser dots").
Edit if you want to enhance your games shooting realism, it's really, really worth the $13... you can download a preview.
If you want to enhance your cinematic shooting you'll want Gun-fu.

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

...Uh, how does that benefit long arms? Long arms have larger bulk penalties than pistols.

Ah, I stand corrected. I was thinking that Bulk penalties were much smaller than they actually are. Maybe something like a +1 Acc for every three full points of Bulk Penalty? That would allow longer pistols a +1 and longer long arms a +2.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I think Ulzgoroth covered it, ie you get no bonuses for Acc or sight aids (except "laser dots").

Hip shooting has some other rules given beyond being limited to unsighted shooting only, which actually make it useful in certain cases. It's advantageous in very close combat or when using guns that you're not strong enough to handle normally.

(And you can of course choose to use unsighted shooting with a shouldered longarm or a pistol in a regular shooting stance.)

I highly recommend picking up TS if you're interested in things like this, because it really revamps the principles of shooting combat significantly.

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

Ah, I stand corrected. I was thinking that Bulk penalties were much small than they actually are. Maybe something like a +1 Acc for every three full points of Bulk Penalty? That would allow longer pistols a +1 and longer long arms a +2.

I have no idea what you're proposing to apply those modifiers to.