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Old 11-01-2022, 02:50 PM   #11
Kromm
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Default Re: TL Minus

I could see it making sense, even if it gives me cold sweats as an editor due to SJ Games using the hyphen-minus (-) as a figure dash (‒), a true minus (−), and in place of an en dash (–) for ranges.
TL(7+1) is some James Bond imagining of today with big, clunky TL7 gizmos producing all meaningful TL8 functions.
TL8 is today as it actually evolved.
TL(9-1) is something like a TL9 society with shortages that let it use TL9 leftovers to manage TL8 at best.
All would be TL8 in capability, but TL(7+1) would arrive at that capability by imaginative projection from the past instead of the actual route we took, while TL(9-1) would arrive at that capability by creative improvisation from the future; I can't easily imagine a TL(9-1) society that never knew TL8 first.

Specifically, a lot of the Mad Max silliness seen in cinematic post-apoc settings is functionally TL(8-8) to TL(8-1), not true TL0 to TL7: It all starts with our TL8 leftovers and cobbles them into various approximations of "natural" lower TLs.
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Old 11-02-2022, 04:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: TL Minus

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Infinite Worlds: Britannica-6 describes a world that might be called TL 7 minus 2. Quite a lot of advanced technology exists, but not much of it is widely used. Soldiers march and fight much like those of Napoleon, but are likely to have reconnaissance support from airships, for example.
"TL: 5+2 (for war machines and aristocrats’ toys; large
areas are still at 5, even in advanced nations)" (Infinite Worlds: Britannica-6 pg 26). This is effectively Split Tech Level (Basic p 511)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
This course is broadening the definition of "technology" to include social and economic changes.
Well Traveler had/has social and economic factors as part of its TLs and it had major problems.
For example, Traveller 5 had Democracies as TTL 3 c1700 CE even though ancient Greece (TTL 1.3 c 1300 BCE) had them.

Kingdoms is set at TTL 1.6 (c 600 CE) even though there were kingdoms as far back as TTL 1 (Bronze age). It just doesn't work very well.
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Old 11-03-2022, 04:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: TL Minus

An alternative to using "-" for transition might be ">", e.g. "TL 5>6" meaning "5, going on 6". (Though I apologize if I gave anyone twitches for writing "5 is greater than 6".)
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Old 11-03-2022, 07:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: TL Minus

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Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
An alternative to using "-" for transition might be ">", e.g. "TL 5>6" meaning "5, going on 6". (Though I apologize if I gave anyone twitches for writing "5 is greater than 6".)
Looking back at the books perhaps using Split Technology is the better solution. Using previous examples:

*Europe in the mid 15th century — TL3 (Armor and Weapons, TL4)
*Old West era of the United States — TL5 (near railroads post 1880, TL6)
*United States or Europe in the 1950s — TL6 (Jet aircraft, atomic power, automatic weapons, TL7)
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Old 11-03-2022, 10:48 AM   #15
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Default Re: TL Minus

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
An alternative to using "-" for transition might be ">", e.g. "TL 5>6" meaning "5, going on 6". (Though I apologize if I gave anyone twitches for writing "5 is greater than 6".)
I was a math major. I flinch.

On one hand, a range of technologies would look like "TL5-6," with the second number always being greater than the first. On the other hand, a technology that was unexpectedly ineffective would look like "TL(5-3)," with the second number necessarily being less than or equal to the first (since negative TLs don't exist in GURPS). Oh, and in the latter case, I would enclose the numerical expression in parentheses, but not in the former.
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