[Martial Arts] Berserkergang

[sir_pudding]

If Beserk isn't appropriate is Controllable Disadvatage: Berserk? What about fear related traits? Berserkers should be fearless. I'd consider Fearlessness, Unfazeable and Brave as at least optional.

If it's meant to allow feats like the infamous "font of glory" then I think it needs to be more than just High Pain Threshold and a bonus to Will. How about an autohypnosis technique with High Pain Threshold as a prerequisite that can substitute a HT or Will based roll (as appropriate) for resistance rolls, fright checks, knockdown rolls, and consciousness rolls while in a trance?

[PK]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If Beserk isn't appropriate is Controllable Disadvatage: Berserk?

Berserk is explicitly disallowed as a Controllable Disadvantage. (Otherwise there'd be major balance issues -- having all of the benefits of being berserk but with the ability to snap out of it with ease is too good for a perk.)

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Berserk is explicitly disallowed as a Controllable Disadvantage. (Otherwise there'd be major balance issues -- having all of the benefits of being berserk but with the ability to snap out of it with ease is too good for a perk.)

Meh. You can take it at Self-Control Rating 15 and ignore it 90% of the time, and you get the ability to call it up AND you get an extra 5 points.

The problem isn't that Berserk is too powerful for a perk (if that were the case, it'd be too powerful for a disadvantage and we should be discussing it as a 0 point feature or as an advantage). The problem is that it shouldn't work under the blanket conditions of the Controllable Disadvantage (for example, you can snap out of it at any time). Make it work like the SC 15 version (ie, you can only snap out of it when forcibly restrained or when you've defeated a "foe") and I think it's fine as a perk. Call it something else, because it really is its own creature with specialized rules, but I don't think it's inappropriate, in this form, as a perk.

(If you SERIOUSLY don't think it's acceptable as a perk with some kind of limitations associated with it, then please, show us what the advantage version SHOULD cost, because this sort of thing comes up often enough. It'd be nice to see some actual numbers assigned to it, rather than just being told "It's too powerful!" If you think it's 5 points or 10 points, say so)

[Anthony]

Berserk grants:
High Pain Threshold[10]
Hard to Subdue 4 [8]
Hard to Kill 4 [8], Limited: only delays death

All with a drawback of 'must all-out attack every turn' and 'cannot reliably tell friend from foe'.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Berserk is explicitly disallowed as a Controllable Disadvantage. (Otherwise there'd be major balance issues -- having all of the benefits of being berserk but with the ability to snap out of it with ease is too good for a perk.)

Yeah, I keep forgetting that. Sorry.

The rest of my suggestions still seem valid. :)

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I beleive that it is MA's assumption that HPT can be "learned" through sufficiently rough training.

I absolutely agree that this is the case. However, Berserkergangers are described as only having HPT when they are in their trance.

I could have kept it as a meta-trait easily enough: Will +1 and High Pain Threshold (Costs Fatigue, Immediate Preparation Required, Requires Skill Roll (Auto Hypnosis), Temporary Disadvantage (Reduced IQ).

But it seemed much more satisfying to me to make it a technique of Autohypnosis because the description of the martial art seemed to focus so much on "meditation" and "wod" (basically their version of Chi) as being the central focus of the training.

Just eyeballing it, the above Meta-Trait would cost less than improving the Technique all the way, and much less than buying Autohypnosis up to a decent level. It's also, IMHO, less elegant.

Originally Posted by alimantando

I think Intimitation would be a good Skill and Combat Shticks.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

If you're going to go that route, give it Flourish (but call it something else). That way, when a Berserkerka utterly crushes his opponent, he can muscle out and growl and get an intimidation +4 roll against his remaining opponents.

Yes, excellent ideas. Would you argue that intimidation should be a core skill, or optional? I definitely agree that one or both of Flourish and Intimidating Pose probably belong in the Perk list.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If Beserk isn't appropriate is Controllable Disadvantage: Berserk?

Based on the description, it doesn't seem like the Trance requires one to eschew defenses, nor do they seem more likely to attack their friends by mistake. Therefore, I think the Trance must represent something completely different from GURPS Berserk.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

What about fear related traits? Berserkers should be fearless. I'd consider Fearlessness, Unfazeable and Brave as at least optional.

Fearlessness is on the list of optional traits already. Brave should probably be another Style Perk (although that list is getting long now).

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If it's meant to allow feats like the infamous "font of glory" then I think it needs to be more than just High Pain Threshold and a bonus to Will. How about an autohypnosis technique with High Pain Threshold as a prerequisite that can substitute a HT or Will based roll (as appropriate) for resistance rolls, fright checks, knockdown rolls, and consciousness rolls while in a trance?

Intriguing idea. It doesn't allow for the character who is only more resistant to pain while in a trance, however.

Also, can you tell me more about this "font of glory"? Google fails me.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Aha! Thanks, I get it now.

sorry - I was elsewhere. But the best soap needs the best ingredients.

Originally Posted by aesir23

What are your thoughts on the new Techniques for Autohypnosis? I struggled to come up with something that felt balanced, plausible, and consistent with the claims made by the website.

Sound good to me but I'd hoping you get feedback from the experts - I'm terrible at cost/balance...

Re Style Skills: you could easily excuse Karate and Judo - it's a modern style and you've mentioned techniques bleeding in from MMA. But I understand your choice - K&J have good defences but B&W are simpler and more directly offence oriented.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Re Style Skills: you could easily excuse Karate and Judo - it's a modern style and you've mentioned techniques bleeding in from MMA. But I understand your choice - K&J have good defences but B&W are simpler and more directly offence oriented.

Yeah, I decided that since the bulk of the martial art is focused on being able to enter a trance and other "internal" concerns, that what little combat training would be fairly simple: hence the less expensive skills.

People who want Karate or Judo simply supplement their Berserkergang training with other martial arts.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Also, can you tell me more about this "font of glory"? Google fails me.

You chop off your own left hand and spray your foe with arterial blood to blind him. Then you kill him before you bleed to death.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

You chop off your own left hand and spray your foe with arterial blood to blind him. Then you kill him before you bleed to death.

Aha. I see. That sounds so over-the-top that it must either be very old (eddas) or very new (internet meme).

I'd say you would just need High Pain Threshold (or Berserker Trance), Hard to Subdue (possibly with Only During Berserker Trance), and On The Edge.

That way, you'd be able to ignore the shock penalties, resist Knockdown, and actually capable of considering killing yourself to kill your enemy.

Come to think of it, would Berserker Trance still be balanced if it included a few levels of Hard to Subdue--and perhaps On The Edge is a better drawback than -2 IQ (which is really -2 IQ!).