01-06-2011, 01:25 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
You are ignoring the weight. If you swing a knotted rope and a chain of the same weight then the chain definitely moves much faster through the air. If you reduce the weight like in your example then damage and HP is reduced.
Last edited by DanHoward; 01-06-2011 at 01:30 PM. Reason: fix typos |
01-06-2011, 01:59 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, Hub of the Universe!
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
Quote:
... unless a kusari's chain is much smaller/thinner than I'm imaging, but then you'd need to include its breaking ST because trying to entangle with a jewelry-weight chain is asking for trouble. I already posit that a weighted rope will do less damage (sw+1 vs the sw+2 for a kusari) because it weighs less and that it has less robust rope, it's Dan's statement of slower speed giving -1 to skill that I think is silly. You don't hit with the chain, you hit with the weighted end because the speed and force are highest in the swinging weight on the end. Being hit with a chain as it's wrapping around won't do much damage. At least, until the end hits you.
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Demi Benson Last edited by DemiBenson; 01-06-2011 at 02:05 PM. |
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01-06-2011, 02:10 PM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, Hub of the Universe!
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
Quote:
And I fully agree that a rope with the same weight per yard as a chain would have more drag, even though I am not yet convinced that it would be enough for a -1 to skill in GURPS.
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Demi Benson |
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01-06-2011, 03:01 PM | #14 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
Note that kusari chains are remarkably fine. Their construction was a military secret of sorts at one point.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
01-07-2011, 12:20 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
Quote:
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01-07-2011, 01:53 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
Quote:
I think I would base that more off whip skill. |
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01-07-2011, 08:49 AM | #17 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
To be fair, strikes with a kusari always use the weighted end. That's the weapon's striking surface. When the chain is the primary point of contact, the goal is always to entangle, never to strike. I rarely use "always" and "never" if I can't back it up; Mol's Classical Weaponry of Japan is widely regarded as a reliable source.
As for skill, both a rope dart and a kusari use the Kusari skill in GURPS. The difference between Kusari and Whip doesn't reside in which part of the weapon (end vs. side) is used to hit the target, or in whether the weapon can entangle. Kusari weapons have a weighted end; Whip weapons do not. It's the presence of the weighted striking surface that makes a Kusari weapon what it is. Both the proper kusari (kusari-fundo, manriki-gusari, etc.) and the shéng biāo (rope dart) fit this description.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
01-07-2011, 12:57 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, Hub of the Universe!
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
While I haven't done so with the exact weights we're talking about, I have tried with both practice poi and fire-spinning poi (chain instead of string). I found the ones with chains to be more awkward.
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Demi Benson |
07-23-2012, 05:33 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Boston, Hub of the Universe!
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Re: [MA] Weapon Question: Rope Kusari?
Quote:
Start with Kusari-fundo on wikipedia, follow the link for the long pic with the ruler. Copy that to a handy image editor that can determine lengths, and find pixel lengths for 1 inch on the ruler, the width and length of a whole link, the wire width of a link (is there a word for that?), and the number of links per 1 foot length. The fine details (I picked a link around the 9 inch mark, since it looked as face-on as possible): 1 inch on the ruler: 202 pixel Wire width: 21 pixel, ~0.10 inches Link width: 112 pixel, ~0.55 inches Link length: 319 pixel, ~1.58 inches Start-to-start length of a link: 253 pixel, ~1.25 inches, or about 9.58 links per foot (actual number of slack links per foot ~9.8) Surface Area, assuming links are roughly squarish = (1.58 * 0.55 - 1.38 * 0.35) * 2 + (0.35 * 0.1 * 2) + (0.55 * 0.1 * 2) + (1.58 * 0.1 * 2) + (1.38 * 0.1 * 2) = ~1.54 inch^2 Chain drag per foot (taking 9.7 links per foot) = ~15.0 in^2 (If anyone wants to correct me with better math, be my guest.) If the link end-cap shapes were perfect semi-circles, Sketchup tells me that's ~1.24 inch^2 per link, which gives ~12 inch^2 per foot length. So the actual value would be somewhere between 12 and 15 sq inches, and closer to the high side since the links are much more square-ended than round-ended. 3/8in rope drag per foot = 3/8 * pi * 12 = ~14.1 in^2 Even though the calculation for the chain is approximate, it's very close to the surface area of the 3/8 inch rope. That's leaving out the increased drag effects of having interlocking square-edged links. So the chain kusari and the weighted rope would have roughly the same drag along their lengths. The weight and strength of each would be different, but that was not in question.
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Demi Benson |
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