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Old 04-12-2023, 05:42 PM   #11
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimpćo View Post
I searched the Basic Set for "Injury", "Single Injury" and "Major Wounds", also searched something related to this case on google and could not find any definitive answer in here, reddit or the fandom.

IMHO shock penalty max is -4 in any case, though.
But I'm really not sure about the major wound... I guess it's really open for interpretation of maybe the phrasing regarding this is a little different than we are thinking or it is in another book.
No, the major wound is pretty definitive. One injury is one injury, not the aggregate of multiple injuries.
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Old 04-12-2023, 06:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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Originally Posted by Pimpćo View Post
But I'm really not sure about the major wound... I guess it's really open for interpretation of maybe the phrasing regarding this is a little different than we are thinking or it is in another book.
Campaigns page 420...
  • A “major wound” is any single injury of greater than 1/2 your HP.

In your example there are 2 injuries, both less than 1/2 HP. Not a single source of injury b/c there were 2 hits.
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Old 04-12-2023, 06:28 PM   #13
Pimpćo
 
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

Ok, then.
Thanks guys!
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Old 04-12-2023, 06:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I can't infer the argument here.

The cap applies regardless of your injuries, yes, but nobody is questioning that. The question is, does -2 and -2 make -4, or not? And I do think it does, but that fragment doesn't answer that.
I doubt if the writers/editors diagrammed the sentence before publishing so, to me, it's not useful to approach it with such extreme level of pedantry.

"Whenever", ie each injury. If there's more than one injury they are all included, resulting in, "injuries".

"to a maximum penalty of -4, regardless of your injuries", ie, the max penalty is -4 regardless of whether or not the sum of the aforementioned, inclusive "Whenever you are injured", penalty is greater than that.

The word, "attack" is not mentioned anywhere in the section, only "injury/injuries" so separating a clause in the sentence and attempting to apply it as a possibility of such, is ridiculous.

A quick and obviously logical rewrite of the sentence to remove the offending clause...
  • Each time you are injured in a turn reduce your DX and IQ by the number of HP you lost due to that injury - to a maximum penalty of -4, regardless of the sum of all injuries sustained in the turn – on your next turn only.

If the above is not the intent of the rule, 5 bullet hits from a single burst each causing 1 point of damage after DR is a shock penalty of -1 while 5 bullets from 5 people hitting you once each causing 1 point of damage after DR would be a shock penalty of -4. Which is just stupid.

But YMMV. If it's not obvious to you, you're the GM so you win and the RAW does NOT answer the question of whether or not shock penalties due to multiple injuries from a single attack roll are additive and you just choose to do so and you win the greatest pedant in the world trophy.
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Old 04-12-2023, 07:40 PM   #15
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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If the above is not the intent of the rule, 5 bullet hits from a single burst each causing 1 point of damage after DR is a shock penalty of -1 while 5 bullets from 5 people hitting you once each causing 1 point of damage after DR would be a shock penalty of -4. Which is just stupid.
I'm pretty sure literally no one has suggested that interpretation, which has no possible basis in the text.

What is possible - though again not my own read - is that in both of those cases you have a shock penalty of -1, that being the highest shock penalty caused by any of the individual injuries.
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Old 04-12-2023, 09:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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Originally Posted by Pimpćo View Post
Yeah, that's my main question here: what constitutes an injury in this case? E
In this case it's the result of _a_ bullet. This is an area where Gurps is much more simulationist than gamist. Your vocabulary seems more gamist but Gurps tends towards the literal in combat. You roll however many dice it says to when a bullet hits and that's one wound.
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Old 04-13-2023, 02:36 AM   #17
johndallman
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
I doubt if the writers/editors diagrammed the sentence before publishing so, to me, it's not useful to approach it with such extreme level of pedantry.

. . .

But YMMV. If it's not obvious to you, you're the GM so you win and the RAW does NOT answer the question of whether or not shock penalties due to multiple injuries from a single attack roll are additive and you just choose to do so and you win the greatest pedant in the world trophy.
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Let's be a bit less antagonistic about this, please.
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Old 04-13-2023, 07:16 AM   #18
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

FWIW, I count all injuries on a turn for shock, not that it matters often.
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Old 04-13-2023, 12:24 PM   #19
Pimpćo
 
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
FWIW, I count all injuries on a turn for shock, not that it matters often.
That's my read too and it's right according to the FAQ (highlights in red by me):

_____________________

3.4.5.2 What rolls are affected by Shock due to injuries? When do the penalty take effect?
Shock lowers DX and IQ, -1 each per point of damage taken (for a maximum of -4). This reduction lasts until the end of the victim's next turn. He can still act during that turn, but at the given penalty.

Shock does not affect:

Any active defense.
Any resistance roll.
DX rolls to remain standing after Knockback, if that wound caused the Knockback.

Shock does affect:

Attack rolls.
Recovery from Mental Stun.
All other DX or IQ rolls.

You take shock penalties the moment you get hurt, and suffer them until the end of your next turn. If you were interrupted during your action by someone Waiting, and get hurt, you do suffer penalties on your current action.
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Old 04-13-2023, 12:40 PM   #20
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

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Originally Posted by Pimpćo View Post
That's my read too and it's right according to the FAQ (highlights in red by me):

_____________________

3.4.5.2 What rolls are affected by Shock due to injuries? When do the penalty take effect?
Shock lowers DX and IQ, -1 each per point of damage taken (for a maximum of -4). This reduction lasts until the end of the victim's next turn. He can still act during that turn, but at the given penalty.

Shock does not affect:

Any active defense.
Any resistance roll.
DX rolls to remain standing after Knockback, if that wound caused the Knockback.

Shock does affect:

Attack rolls.
Recovery from Mental Stun.
All other DX or IQ rolls.

You take shock penalties the moment you get hurt, and suffer them until the end of your next turn. If you were interrupted during your action by someone Waiting, and get hurt, you do suffer penalties on your current action.
I'm at the same conclusion, but I don't think anything in that FAQ answer actually indicates our conclusion except by omission of statements to the contrary.

(Sufficient omission of contradiction can be read as support, but doesn't clearly indicate what it's support of.)
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