dissociating magic from FP

[Cybren]

So, a long long time ago, PK posted this in a thread about drawing out ambient mana as an alternate version of ER.

For a while I've wanted to run a fantasy campaign where that is the primary way mages power their spells. If I were going to do that, what would you (in the collective sense) suggest? "Free" levels of it for mages? Let people use fatigue but give them harsh penalties for it? Some combination of both?

[Refplace]

I dont get his math. The way he has it your paying twice as much for half effect in normal mana and the same in High mana. Assuming High mana is rare or very rare it should IMHO be cheaper.

[weby]

I am running a fairly long(148 sessions/8-13 hours each so far) campaign where the basic system was based on energy reserves and gurps magic. (We recently totally switched magic systems as GURPS magic really does not scale well to 1500+ point characters)

I did not use variable size mana pools for different magic levels instead the casting cost was modified by the magic level. There is no "free" ER, instead all ER is bought. I had several types of ER that recovered differently and gave different penalties and such. You could not use FP to cast at all, so you had to invest in the ER to be a mage.

The basic idea is that there is a limit on how much ER you can buy based on something(basically how effective you want to allow your mages to become)

If you want "gurps basic mages" then the ER should not easily go over 2/3 FP. If you want mighty mages capable of multiple castings of large area spells, then you need to allow more.

[Kromm]

"Magic uses Energy Reserve only" is a strong control on spell magic. In effect, being unable to use FP starts every spellcaster roughly 30 points in the hole, and being unable to burn HP further amplifies the effect. If you take away all other sources of energy – ceremonial magic, Powerstones, power items, paut, etc. – so that every wizard must pay the full cost out of personal ER (Magical), then it becomes very easy to limit what casters can accomplish simply by restricting maximum ER. Whether you think that's balanced depends on your experiences with your specific players . . . I've GMed groups who abused the heck out of magic but also groups who were conservative with it. I will say that "ER only" tends to break genres like Dungeon Fantasy, though.

[Nereidalbel]

RPM is also based on drawing in energy from around you, instead of being based on your FP. Burning FP for RPM is also described as painful and/or unpleasant, which should be enforced if you want to limit its use. Granted, it's slower than the Standard Magic system, but, that may be a good thing if you don't want mages to be the best thing since sliced bread.

[SCAR]

Threshold-Limit Magic [Thaumatology.p76] might also be another option.

[weby]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I will say that "ER only" tends to break genres like Dungeon Fantasy, though.

I kind of disagree on this point, ER only can really make them be closer to classic gaming where mages start as low power(have low ER, number of spells and low spell skills) and get really powerful(High ER,know many spells and have high skill in them). You can "easier" hand wave away high ER than high FP. (High magic power vs running far before getting tired)

For such game you could allow buying magery freely and allow buying of ER up to a total of say max magery squared + IQ-10. thus a starting mage with 1 magery could have something like 1 magery, 4-6 max ER(at IQ 13-15) and a few spells with few points in them for a total skill of maybe 15 in some spell and late game mage could have 70+ ER and magery 8 with a total skill of maybe 30 in the best spells.

Would the later game mage "break" something? Yes, but so would a archer or melee built with the same points...

As for point balance, yes at 250 points ER only is a bit high price to pay for starting mages if you want them balanced with others.

[Prince Charon]

One way to deal with it, is to treat ER as a Secondary Attribute, perhaps based on Will+Magery (which I suppose would make it more of a Tertiary Attribute), in much the way FP is based on HT, and in 3e, on ST. It's a solution I'm fond of, and I think I've seen it done in a few games described online.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

One way to deal with it, is to treat ER as a Secondary Attribute, perhaps based on Will+Magery (which I suppose would make it more of a Tertiary Attribute), in much the way FP is based on HT, and in 3e, on ST. It's a solution I'm fond of, and I think I've seen it done in a few games described online.

If I were going to set a base amount for ER, I'd start it at either IQ or 10. Will and Magery both already provide a lot of utility for little cost, so I'd be hesitant to throw an additional 3 points of value on each. Maybe have ER start at IQ, with a limit based on Will+Magery (or some multiple thereof).