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Old 04-04-2010, 07:41 AM   #11
Dangerious P. Cats
 
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi View Post
Looks interesting.

If you need more info about ice age animals (preferrably for a specific continent) I can get you the info.
More info would be good since much of what I have comes from ice Age and Walking with Beasts. For the mot part I'm looking at the wild life from late Ice Age Europe or North America, but I'm not too wed to the idea of duplicating a set Eco System with Celts in it if you can think of any that would be cool it would be highly appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elv View Post
Hmm. Based on the mental image of mammoth-riding I'd go for Mahouts, or even Mammuts. Based on the description, which is a sort of nomadic pastoralism, I'd go for Pastoralists or similar.

Nice setting, BTW!

John
I like the idea of reffering to them as Pastoralists, it seems to communicate that people are cultural groupings rather than formal nations.

The other thing I'm wanting to add are martial arts styles, I don't suppose anyone knows any good sources of information about Celtic fighting?
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

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Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
The other thing I'm wanting to add are martial arts styles, I don't suppose anyone knows any good sources of information about Celtic fighting?
The main weapons of the Celts were the Sword and Spear. I'd go with Heroic Spear Fighting (MA196), Longsword (MA180), Early "Knightly" Mounted Combat (MA175) and Shortsword (MA195) as starting points for combat styles. I could also see creating one or a few unique styles for each faction, reflecting their cultural taste in armaments and tactics.

As for historical information about the fighting styles of the Celts... can't help much there.
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:23 AM   #13
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
The other thing I'm wanting to add are martial arts styles, I don't suppose anyone knows any good sources of information about Celtic fighting?
MA suggests using Heroic Spear-Fighting for Celts, and from what I've read, I'd have to agree.

FWIW, I wrote up this Ice Age martial art a while ago. It's based on the current archaeological understanding of Neanderthal hunting tactics.

Quote:
Neanderthal Hunting
Unlike their neighbors and rivals, the Cro-Magnon Man, Neanderthals never used ranged weapons to hunt. Their spears were heavy and not designed to be thrown, they killed the dangerous ice age mega-fauna up close and personal, relying on their strength and intelligence to out fight much larger prey. Getting out of the way of charging beasts would have been paramount to survival, for this they would have used acrobatic dodges and the Evade maneuver. Alternately the Neanderthal may “brace for a stop-thrust” (B366). One tactic may have been for one group of Neanderthals to use screams and shouts to drive their prey into a waiting group of hidden Neanderthals. Many Neanderthal probably carried a knife, but these would have been worthless against a large mammal of the sort they hunted, useful only for coup-de-grace against an injured target or as a weapon of last resort.
Skills: Acrobatics, Running, Spear, Stealth
Techniques: Attack from Above, Close Combat (Spear), Evade (Acrobatics), Retain Weapon (Spear), Targeted Attack (Spear Thrust/Vitals, Vs. Quadrupeds)
Cinematic Skills: Kiai, Power Blow
Cinematic Techniques: Roll with Blow, Springing Attack
Perks: Special Exercises (DR 1 with Tough Skin), Special Exercises (Striking ST +1), Sure Footed (Uneven), Teamwork (Neanderthal Hunting)

Optional:
Axe/Mace, Camouflage, Knife, Tracking, Wrestling
A Cro-Magnon Martial Art might look something like this:

Quote:
Cro-Magnon Hunting

The primary hunting tool of Ice Age H. Sapiens was the Atlatl (spear-thrower). This powerful weapon would be used at a range, probably from hiding. For close quarters self-defense Cro-Magnon Man would probably either use the Atlatl dart as a melee spear or switch to the knife or axe.
Atlatls were in many ways a better weapon for hunting mega fauna than the bow (invented much later than the Atlatl, but present in some regions for most of the last ice age), what it lost in range, rate of fire, and accuracy, it made up in raw power.
It nevertheless probably took several hunters working in in coordination to bring down a mammoth or wholly rhino.
It is completely fair and reasonable to make a version of this style that uses Bow instead of Spear-Thrower available to players in campaigns that take place less than ~40,000 years ago.

Skills: Camouflage, Spear, Spear-Thrower, Stealth
Techniques: Targeted Attack (Spear-Thrower Vitals, Quadrapeds)
Cinematic Skills: Zen Archery
Cinematic Techniques: None
Perks: Special Exercises (Arm St +1), Team Work (Cro-Magnon Hunting)

Optional: Axe/Mace, Bow, Fast Draw (Atlatl Dart), Knife, Tracking
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Old 04-04-2010, 10:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
More info would be good since much of what I have comes from ice Age and Walking with Beasts. For the mot part I'm looking at the wild life from late Ice Age Europe or North America, but I'm not too wed to the idea of duplicating a set Eco System with Celts in it if you can think of any that would be cool it would be highly appreciated.
Any individual animals, or whole ecosystems? Because I tend to think most extinct animals could be cool.

So here are Europe and North America in the late Pleistocene. If I don't give the species name, assume there are multiple species. I've included some small animals (like rodents and mustelids), especially the extinct island species, but I haven't bothered to list every living species of small vertebrate. For North America I don't have all of the ground sloths, pronghorns, deer, large birds, marine mammals, or armadillos, but this is a start.

European mainland, Scandinavia, and British Isles
cave lion (Panthera leo spelaea)
Eurasian lion (Panthera leo persica)
leopard (Panthera pardus)
lynx (Lynx lynx)
Eurasian cheetah (Acinonyx intermedius)
pardel lynx (Iberian lynx, Lynx pardinus)
steppe cat (Pallas’ cat, Otocolobus manul)
European wildcat (Felis silvestris silvestris)
polar bear (Ursus maritimus)
cave bear (Ursus spelaeus)
brown bear (Ursus arctos)
short-faced hyena (Pachycrocuta brevirostris)
spotted hyena (Crocuta crocuta spelaea)
wolf (Canis lupus)
dhole (wild dog, Cuon)
jackal (Canis aureus)
Arctic fox (Alopex lagopus)
corsac fox (Vulpes corsac)
red fox (Vulpes vulpes)
wolverine (glutton, Gulo gulo)
steppe polecat (Mustela eversmanni)
walrus (Odobenus rosmarus)
bearded seal (Erignathus barbatus)
hooded seal (Cystophora cristatus)
ringed seal (Phoca hispida)
monk seal (Monachus monachus)
strait-tusked elephant (Palaeoloxodon antiquus)
woolly mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius)
giant unicorn (elasmothere rhinoceros, Elasmotherium sibiricum)
woolly rhinoceros (Coelodonta antiquatis)
aurochs (wild ox, urus, giant ox, Bos primigenius primigenius)
steppe bison (steppe wisent, Bison priscus)
wisent (forest bison, Bison bonasus)
muskox (Ovibos moschatus)
ibex (Capra ibex)
wild sheep (urial, Ovis vignei/orientalis)
saiga (Saiga tatarica)
chamois (Rupicapra rupicapra)
wild boar (Sus scrofa)
moose (Alces alces)
giant deer (Megaloceros giganteus)
red deer (Cervus elaphus)
reindeer (caribou, Rangifer tarandus)
roe deer (Capreolus capreolus)
Eurasian muntjac (Metacervulus)
European muntjac (Paracervulus)
steppe tarpan (tarpan, European wild horse, Equus caballus ferus)
forest tarpan (European forest horse, Equus caballus sylvestris)
European wild ass (steppe ass, Equus hydruntinus)
onager (Persian wild ass, Equus hemionus onager)
crested porcupine (Hystrix cristata)
European beaver (Castor fiber)
giant hamster (Cricetus major)
great jerboa (Allactaga major)
great auk (garefowl, Alca/Penguinus impennis)

Mediterranean Islands
Sardinian lynx (Lynx pardinus sardiniae)
Sardinian dhole (Cynotherium sardous)
dwarf elephant (Palaeoloxodon)
Cypriot dwarf hippo (Phanourios minutus/minor)
Maltese dwarf hippo (Hippopotamus melitensis)
Balearic dwarf goat (Myotragus balearicus)
dwarf deer (dwarf megacerine, Praemegaceros)
Sicilian dwarf deer (Dama carburangelensis)
giant pika (Prolagus)

North America
sabre-tooth (Smilodon fatalis)
scimitar-tooth (Homotherium serum)
American lion (Panthera leo atrox)
cheetah-puma (Miraxinonyx trumani)
margay (Leopardus pardalis)
ocelot (Leopardus wiedii)
Florida cave bear (Tremarctos floridanus)
giant short-faced bear (Arctodus simus)
lesser short-faced bear (Arctodus pristinus)
dire wolf (Canis lupus dirus)
wild dog (Canis)
sea mink (Mustela macrodon)
short-faced skunk (Brachyprotoma obtusata)
woolly mammoth (Mammuthus primigenius)
Jefferson’s mammoth (Mammuthus jeffersoni)
American mastodon (Mammut americana)
prod-tusker (Gomphotherium)
Channel Islands dwarf mammoth (Mammuthus exilis)
flat-footed ground sloth (Megalonyx)
Glossotherium ground sloth
Harlan’s ground sloth (Paramylodon harlani)
Neomesocnus ground sloth
Rusconi’s ground sloth (Eremotherium rusconii)
Shasta ground sloth (Nothrotheriops shastensis/shastense)
giant bison (wide-horned bison, Brea longhorn, Bison latifrons)
shrub ox (Euceratherium/Preptoceras collinum)
American giant tapir (Tapirus haysii)
yesterday’s camel (Camelops hesternus)
Hemiauchenia llama
Herfano camel (Camelops huerfanensis)
Kansas camel (Camelops kansanus)
stocky-legged llama (Paleolama mirifica)
giant moose (broad-fronted moose, Alces latifrons)
stag-moose (Cervalces/Libralces)
moose (Alces alces)
Florida marsh deer (Blastocerus extraneus)
mountain deer (Navahoceros fricki)
Sangamona deer
mule deer (Odocoileus)
Bretzia deer
Machrauchenia
Capromeryx/Breameryx pronghorn
Conklin's pronghorn (Stockoceros conklingi)
Quentin’s pronghorn (Stockoceros onusrosagris)
Tetrameryx pronghorn
horse (Equus)
North American peccary (Tayassu)
long-nosed peccary (Mylohyus nasutus)
flat-headed peccary (Platygonus)
Simpson’s glyptodont (Glyptotherium)
northern pampathere (Holmesina septentrionalis)
Pachyarmatherium armadillo
giant beaver (Casteroides ohioensis)
American beaver (Castor canadensis)
great teratorn ((Aiolornis incredibilis)
Merriam’s teratorn (Teratornis merriami)
slender teratorn (Cathartornis gracilis)
great auk (garefowl, Alca/Penguinus impennis)

Caribbean Islands
Cuban ground sloth (Megalocnus/Myomorphus)
greater Haitian ground sloth (Parocnus/Mesocnus)
lesser Haitian ground sloth (Synocnus)
Neocnus/Microcnus/Cubanocnus ground sloth
Puerto Rican ground sloth (Acratocnus/Miocnus/Habanocnus)
Solenodon (Solenodon)
Cuban monkey (Paralouatta varonai)
Hispaniolan monkey (Antillothrix bernensis)
Jamaican monkey (Xenothrix mcgregori)
Amblyrhiza giant hutia
Elasmodontomys obliquus giant hutia
Heptaxodon bidens giant hutia
Quemisia gravis giant hutia
Nesophontes
Capromys hutia
Geocapromys hutia
imposter hutia (Hexolobodon phenax)
Isolobodon/Aphaetraeus/Ithydontia hutia
Lemke's hutia (Rhizoplagiodontia lemkei)
Mesocapromys hutia
Plagiodontia/Hyperplagiodontia hutia
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Last edited by Vaevictis Asmadi; 04-04-2010 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 04-04-2010, 11:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

It looks like there's some useful material here: Celtic Martial Arts, particularly regarding the legendary "feats" of Celtic warriors.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

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Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc View Post
If I'm reading the Matriarchs correctly, a dozen women could all be equal partners in a marriage to each other, and also share a subordinate husband who they could theoretically all get impregnated by at the same time if they wanted to. With only the men serving as the professional warriors, they'll have plenty of women around and should be able to repopulate relatively quickly at need unless they're facing something like famine conditions.
You're right. I hadn't taken into account the fact that while there are female -commanders- they certainly aren't the rank and file.
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Old 04-04-2010, 12:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

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You're right. I hadn't taken into account the fact that while there are female -commanders- they certainly aren't the rank and file.
Col. Jessep: There is nothing on this earth sexier, believe me, gentlemen, than a woman you have to salute in the morning. Promote 'em all, I say, 'cause this is true: if you haven't gotten a BJ* from a superior officer, well, you're just letting the best in life pass you by.

*no, that's not what he says...
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

It's interesting that your present your matriarchal folk as an agrarian culture. What I've read and studied in class seems to indicate that, if anything, women's status fell somewhat in the changeover from hunter-gatherer societies to agriculture-oriented ones.
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Old 04-06-2010, 06:09 PM   #19
Vaevictis Asmadi
 
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

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Originally Posted by ArmoredSaint View Post
It's interesting that your present your matriarchal folk as an agrarian culture. What I've read and studied in class seems to indicate that, if anything, women's status fell somewhat in the changeover from hunter-gatherer societies to agriculture-oriented ones.
Women's status may well have decreased -- the changeover from nomadism to settled villages, often precipitated by agriculture, certainly increased social inequality in general -- but the depiction of an outright matriarchal past (vaguely mentioned by the OP) isn't realistic.

The entire idea that most humans were matriarchal before something happened to change the whole species is a pseudoscientific crock leftover from the Victorian-era notion of human "cultural evolution." I've never heard of actual archaeological or other scientific evidence that this was actually true of humans. It's perfectly fine for fiction, of course, but it shouldn't be taken seriously as something that happened in the real world.
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Last edited by Vaevictis Asmadi; 04-06-2010 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 09:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: Building a setting with Ice Age and Celtic Myth

Okay i think scientifical acuracy isnt topic of courrse the matriarchal theory is bogus...

I have read from this theory in compination with astrological ages, say the shifting of the spring point tru the zodiac from taurus to aries to pices and in circa hunderd years to aquarius. Therefore the often mentioned Age of Aquarius.

The author said that the shift from taurus to aries was when the matriachat gone down and the workship of the great mother was over come by the workship of the sun, man was able to deciper the secret of procreation and smash female supermancy for ever. So as that Jesus was born at the turning point between aries and pices.

So my proposal for a Fourth Faction would be pseudo mycene or punic or wathever mediterran Pyramid builders and sun workshippers, then as we know out of Alan Moores From Hell phalic buildings at crucial spaces keep the woman from dominating us. Maybe Buildings at the wrong places disturb this achitetural charms, this could make a great conspiracy game around 9/11...

There is are some Archeological findings of this pyraminds on the Azores. You could even lable them as Atlanteans seen to the fact that some of there Pyramids are standing on Atlantic Islands.

An other alternative would be Kurgan Horse Lords from easteuropean steppes or some breed of indogermanic/arrian chariot people(but linguistically they would fit well with the proto gaels) ... maybe all above.

In may opinion Dawn of Aries is also quite a cool name....
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