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Old 09-30-2016, 10:40 PM   #41
sir_pudding
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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Old 10-01-2016, 12:08 AM   #42
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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Playing the Devil's advocate here...

"War is HELL." If the bioroids are designed to be obedient to the point of certain extinction, how do you motivate them to not throw their lives away in the heat of combat? If you make war TOO easy, then there will be more war? Are we talking about collateral damage that also affects humanity? Can Bioroids be made that will not attack humans?
You wouldn't want military Bioroids that will not attack humans. It's too obvious an Achilles heel. And people aren't nearly so inclined to be agitated by collateral that hits the the other guys. And yes, building people to be used as disposable tools is a bad idea. Terrible. The worst. It will go horribly wrong. But then people said the same thing even as their fellows started buying African labour and ruling that they and all their offspring would be chattel in perpetuity. They did it anyway.
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Old 10-01-2016, 01:45 AM   #43
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However it should be noted that canonically Transhuman Space does use SAIs for such missions. suicide missions are most of what puts the "kill" in the "K" in AKVs.
They stick SAIs on AKVs? ...Why would you do that? An NAI is probably enough, and an LAI is overqualified.
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Old 10-01-2016, 01:48 AM   #44
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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They stick SAIs on AKVs? ...Why would you do that? An NAI is probably enough, and an LAI is overqualified.
Why not do it? It's not like they really die and you want an intelligence capable of actual judgement about when and what to attack.
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Old 10-01-2016, 06:47 AM   #45
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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You wouldn't want military Bioroids that will not attack humans. It's too obvious an Achilles heel. And people aren't nearly so inclined to be agitated by collateral that hits the the other guys. And yes, building people to be used as disposable tools is a bad idea. Terrible. The worst. It will go horribly wrong. But then people said the same thing even as their fellows started buying African labour and ruling that they and all their offspring would be chattel in perpetuity. They did it anyway.
Agreed.

If you have a society where the public masses can or will influence the government, this is likely to be aborted before it even starts. In a society where the rulers aren't influenced by the governed - it will be a venue they believe is worth pursuing.

The biggest question that rises to the fore in my mind is "how much technological infrastructure is required to start this up, and then maintain it?" One could presume that the bioroids can be created/conditioned to be loyal beyond belief. As a praetorian guard, they would be wonderful right? If given the ability to reproduce, or granted an extended lifetime (why make it obsolete after only a few years of productivity - make it worth every penny it costs to make despite BLADE RUNNER. The reproductivity aspect is designed to make production costs even cheaper right? Ultimately you get a two class system. Even worse (from certain perspectives), you've now created a compepitor for the same resources (food for energy or a need for biochemical reactions to sustain life - even if the food stuff isn't the same as what humans require). If you go that route, then you need to manufacture their food needs as a consumable - one that humans likely can't or won't eat.

Gotta wonder though... Would bioroids be largely immune to human predators in the form of germs?
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Old 10-01-2016, 07:45 AM   #46
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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Gotta wonder though... Would bioroids be largely immune to human predators in the form of germs?
They can get Immunity to Disease, yes, if you want them to. Though by the time you're TL10 and have TL10 wet nano, which makes natural diseases largely irrelevant, I don't know why you'd bother.
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Old 10-01-2016, 08:06 AM   #47
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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(why make it obsolete after only a few years of productivity - make it worth every penny it costs to make despite BLADE RUNNER. The reproductivity aspect is designed to make production costs even cheaper right?
Well the people that make and sell bioroids probably don't want an unlimited amount of them running around. That cuts sales. And we did that to the slave importers prior to the Civil War. We had enough chattel slaves that they could reproduce to meet the needs of future production. Every slave owner becomes a slave seller. A little planned obsolescence is good from the manufacturers' point of view - tight market and all that. If the setting postulates that the bioroids are a government answer to much needed manpower then yes getting more years out is a good thing. How would your setting with reproduction of bioroids deal with needing to control the birthrate? Trim before or after?
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:42 AM   #48
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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They can get Immunity to Disease, yes, if you want them to. Though by the time you're TL10 and have TL10 wet nano, which makes natural diseases largely irrelevant, I don't know why you'd bother.
The point is - if they're not genetically human, and their biochemistry isn't human, one would suspect that they're not going to be susceptible to human diseases. One wouldn't even have to engineer them for "Immunity to Disease" as such.
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:50 AM   #49
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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How would your setting with reproduction of bioroids deal with needing to control the birthrate? Trim before or after?
"Reproduction" of bioroids is biogenesis so you can control the availability of biogenesis tanks, encrypt the schematics, have intellectual property law, and use DRM technology to prevent reverse engineering.
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:53 AM   #50
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Default Re: [THS] Why Make Bioroids?

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Well the people that make and sell bioroids probably don't want an unlimited amount of them running around. That cuts sales. And we did that to the slave importers prior to the Civil War. We had enough chattel slaves that they could reproduce to meet the needs of future production. Every slave owner becomes a slave seller. A little planned obsolescence is good from the manufacturers' point of view - tight market and all that. If the setting postulates that the bioroids are a government answer to much needed manpower then yes getting more years out is a good thing. How would your setting with reproduction of bioroids deal with needing to control the birthrate? Trim before or after?
These are all questions that were glossed over in the Transhuman Space setting.

My point is that:

1) artificial labor that is exploitable (be it mechanical or biological based) means that the quality of life for the "non-exploitable" human beings is going to get worse.

2) if these things have sentience - and presumably free will, they're not going to be any more tractable than are human beings. In essence, they're going to be human beings conceptually speaking, with less rights than humans. The displaced humans will be hostile, idea of having perfect soldiers raises a whole new cesspit of issues.

3) if you have bioroid warriors without a shred of humanity in them, how will the humans deal with that issue? Telling your troops to open fire on civilians is one thing. Having troops easily willing to do just that, is another. With Bioroids capable of such behavior - how long will it be before the issues of war become something LARGER than war? By Larger than war, I'm talking about what amounts to genocidal emotions powering the war in the sense that Humans will feel that their replacements are now here (Bioroids) and the Bioroids conditioned to obey will continue to kill the humans they're ordered to kill. A war with no quarter. A war that will generate such overwhelming hatred that if the bioroid owners lose, will be a really bad result. If the bioroid side wins, then, every human being they eliminate, every job thei displace, every extra bioroid decanted will likely be seen as a sign that the POOR humanity are on their way out, and that the Rich Humanity only care about what amounts to slave labor doing their bidding. Might even cause the humans to adopt a "if you can't beat them, join them" mentality to where they know their very success in life depends on their being at least as good as the bioroids, if not better (or cheaper).
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