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Old 06-20-2006, 06:42 AM   #141
Anders
 
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercator
Polydamas: your idea of having Sparta attack and enslave a weaker polis in a particularly harsh way (I mean, if you can speak of degrees of harshness in Spartan slavery) is very good and would fit in what I have in mind. Let that polis be a specially strategic one (granting a corridor to the sea, for example), and the other major powers have, if not a casus belli, a clear reason for suspicion and alarm.
The Spartans aren't very interested in the sea except, possibly as a way to send out colonists. Remember, they are rabidly anti-trade and anti-anything new. They're the original anti-globalizationalists... :)

A better cause would be to counter a population increase. Suppose that Hera says they can't kill babies to keep the population down. This means they need new arable land, and new helots, and they need it now. This could spark an expansionist era which could very well scare the other city-states.

Also, if they become arrogant as a result of their successes I can very easily see Nemesis step in to balance things up. I don't think even Zeus will oppose Nemesis and the moirai (I think Heraclit alludes to this).
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Old 06-20-2006, 07:28 AM   #142
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask
The Spartans aren't very interested in the sea except, possibly as a way to send out colonists. Remember, they are rabidly anti-trade and anti-anything new. They're the original anti-globalizationalists... :)
Right; I suggested the same thing at the beginning of the thread and I was given the same answer (perhaps even by you!). It makes sense, so I agreed. Somehow, it slipped my mind yesterday. Blame the effect of the June heat on my brain ;-). Until someone comes up with a compelling argument, Spartans will be ground soldiers (and Poseidon, as the God of earthquakes, serves them perfectly at land). But, will they want (or claim that they want) to deny ports in the Peloponnesse to the Athenians?

Quote:
A better cause would be to counter a population increase. Suppose that Hera says they can't kill babies to keep the population down. This means they need new arable land, and new helots, and they need it now. This could spark an expansionist era which could very well scare the other city-states.
In my last alignment list, Hera is going to be pro-Athenian. But she can still have something to say about Spartan birth-control policy (question: how did the real-life Classical Spartans cope with this issue? Did they have to placate Hera after killing a child, or some such?).

Quote:
Also, if they become arrogant as a result of their successes I can very easily see Nemesis step in to balance things up. I don't think even Zeus will oppose Nemesis and the moirai (I think Heraclit alludes to this).
No, Zeus will not challenge them, as he doesn't dare challenge priamry GOds like Nyx in the Iliad. But I can see Athenians growing no less arrogant than Spartans when their proto-empire begins to consolidate with the help of Nereus .If Nemesis wants to punish every act of arrogance in the years to come, she's going to have a pretty busy agenda . . .

Cheers,

M.
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Old 06-20-2006, 08:00 AM   #143
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

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Originally Posted by Agemegos
You will be interested in the origins of the only Spartan colony: Tarentum.
Yeah, I know, but apart from that the founding of new colonies was not a major Spartan thing...
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Old 06-20-2006, 11:36 AM   #144
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

As one with degrees in Ancient Greek and Latin literature and civilization, I find this campaign to be fascinating...

Although some of the information you have is not 100% correct, its correct enough for the setting's purposes and doesn't warrant any corrections.

The response is just fantastic!

Good luck on the campaign. Wish I could be there to play.

If you have any specific questions about Greek civilization or religion/ritual, PM me.
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Old 06-21-2006, 01:40 PM   #145
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

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Originally Posted by Agemegos
Exactly! Tarentum was founded pretty much as the Spartan constitution was taking on its classical, Lycurgan form, and its purpose was to expel the people who didn't fit in to the new regime.
That is very convenient; Tarentum could be a good origin for Spartan PCs as a source of unconformists that just don't fit the extremely rigid Lycurgan mold. Personally, I don't see much possibilities for "mainstream" Spartans as PCs beyond the COmbat Monster sterotype (yes, I use to be the party wizard/cleric/noncombat guy. How did you guess :))

I am not able to read post very often these days. I am still following everybody's great posts with great interest, but cannot answer them as often as I could. Thank again everybody for your interest! It is very encouraging.


Cheers,
M.

PS: Pick, I'm glad you like what we are concocting here. I'll for sure have questions for you. Thanks for your offer!
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Last edited by Mercator; 06-21-2006 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 06-21-2006, 05:49 PM   #146
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PS: Pick, I'm glad you like what we are concocting here. I'll for sure have questions for you. Thanks for your offer!
Anytime. Just PM me for anything at all.
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Old 07-05-2006, 03:17 AM   #147
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

Hi! after a rather long pause, I have done a couple of new things for BtA. I'd like to know your opinon about them:

1. A preliminary map (PDF) of the Mediterranean area that shows the extent of the Aegis.
I have included all of Greece and most of Italy (up to Rome), including Sicily, plus the Aegean Sea and a chunk of Asia Minor. The Greek part of the Aegis extends pretty par north, covering also Thrace (I think) and reaching almost up to the Danube in some places. I also have put the Strait of Bosphorus and an bit of the Black Sea within; it could make a good adventure location.

The entire shaded area has Normal Sanctity, with isolated pockets of High Sanctity in places like Delphi, Eleusis and the Thermopylae, and a very few places (Mount Olympus and the ruins of Troy) with Very High Sanctity. The world outside of the Aegis has No Sanctity. The border of the Aegis itself is a transition zone of variable width (about 3-5 km.) with Low Sanctity. This border is not static; it slightly shifts and moves around roughly following the seasons of the year (expands in summer, shrinks in winter), religious holidays (expands in important festivals, like the Olympic Games), etc.

2. I have finished the writeups for the Olympian Gods, their role in the Peloponessian War, and the areas of power they cover. I'll sort them by alignment in the War in separate posts for clarity (it's already cluttered enough . . .)

EDIT: The posts have been moved from the thread to the BtA website. You can find them here.

Cheers,
M.
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Conversion of the supernatural skills in the Basic Set to Powers.

Last edited by Mercator; 07-06-2006 at 03:44 AM. Reason: Move long posts to my website
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Old 07-05-2006, 07:42 AM   #148
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercator
Demeter: As her husband Hades....
I dunno where the idea that Demeter was Hades' wife came from. Demeter's daughter Persephone is the wife of Hades in all the myth materials I've read (including the works of Robert Graves, the definitive dissector of Greek mythology and how it related to their culture and history.)
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Old 07-05-2006, 10:25 AM   #149
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

Hades isn't just the god of the dead and the realm of the dead. He was also clamed the riches of the Earth (valuable minerals) so he was also the god of weath. As such he might dislike the Atheneans for there silvermines mines or he might favor them because of the sacrificial offerings (and new subjects) he recieves because of the mines. Either way he wont do anything that dosen't directly concern his Attributions more specificaly the mines.
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Old 07-06-2006, 03:33 AM   #150
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Default Re: Homegrown fantasy setting in classical Greece

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos
Looks good! Just a few very minor points.

1. In English we speak of a god's 'attributes' rather than his or her 'attributions'.
I see. I thought that "Attributes" were intrinsic characteristics, such as Apollo's bow or Zeus' thunderbolts, ans "Attributions" were the areas of influence that mortals attributed them. I will correct that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos
2. I note that Greek colonies in several areas such as Marseilles, the Crimea, North Africa, and Spain are outside the aegis. The Athenians might therefore be able to import timber for their ships rather than offend Demeter.
That's very interesting, because it gives the Athenians a further reason to build a strong merchant navy that they can later be used to form their naval empi . . . I mean, League.

In the chronology of the setting, which I'm now working on, I have them expand their fleet very early after the Return (beginning 475 BC), because the forests eat away arable land and they have to bring grain from outside of the Aegis. Your idea about wood fits right in.

Quote:
the plural of polis is poleis, not poloi.
Good; Also corrected. I know next to nothing of Greek, classical or otherwise, and appreciate this kind of corrections. Perhaps somebody can tell what me the Greek plurals of: Empusa and Daimon are? (I think Daimones is Latin).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock1031
I dunno where the idea that Demeter was Hades' wife came from.
From my own lack of sleep when I wrote that ;-). A good lesson about the importance of a good editor . . . Also corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fionn the Otaku
Hades isn't just the god of the dead and the realm of the dead. He was also clamed the riches of the Earth (valuable minerals) so he was also the god of weath. As such he might dislike the Atheneans for there silvermines mines or he might favor them because of the sacrificial offerings (and new subjects) he recieves because of the mines. Either way he wont do anything that dosen't directly concern his Attributions more specificaly the mines.
Good point. I am not sure yet if I want to emphasize that aspect of Hades; I see both him and Demeter as the most "Cthonic" and remote Gods in the Greek pantheon, the ones that should care the least least about human affairs. But I like that; it would be fun to have the Athenians have long and elaborate rituals to appease Hades so that he allows them take silver form the mines (the same idea as with Demeter and the forests, which Agemegos has made me reconsider . . . I want my rituals, dammit! ;-)).

BTW, to reduce the clutter in this thread, I am moving the three long God posts to the BtA web page.

Cheers,

M.

EDIT: About the Greek colonies outside of the Aegis . . . I like that idea very much. I wanted to have a handful of poleis outside, to play with the contrast between the magical Hellas and the still mundane one ("have the Gods forgotten us?"). I was planning to have them in Asia Minor, but Marseilles, the Crimea, North Africa, and Spain would also be appropriate.
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Conversion of the supernatural skills in the Basic Set to Powers.

Last edited by Mercator; 07-06-2006 at 04:49 AM. Reason: Added final paragraph
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