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Old 03-26-2016, 10:37 AM   #11
starslayer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Apart from what I said about the other part...er...what? What are you even talking about here?
Infinity is the better of the two major players in the dimension war, but they are not lilly white, and quite frankly some of their behavior is downright reprehensible.

1. They have allowed private enterprise to completely control a whole world so that they can make a rome themepark.

2. They routinely ruin the lives of other world scientists who may be in a position to develop dimensional travel (up to and including kidnapping them and dropping them off at coventry).

3. Their for-profit business model allows those with money to go and exploit whoever they please (I-cops in theory police this, but the fact that the book even lists I-cops as needing to stop rings of thieves that go to other worlds to kidnap famous people and then sell them into slavery indicates that they are not properly enabled or there aren't enough of them for the number of conveyors they are renting out)

4. Despite having access to literally unlimited resources somehow homeline has not yet arrived at a post-scarcity society.


#2, and #4 would be of particularly concern to a fully informed UNCLE.

#2 because it shows a strong 'anyone not on homeline is not as important as those on homeline' viewpoint of things, a concept of 'less then whole' for offworlders.

#4 because it shows that there is top level manipulation of the distribution of wealth on a scale that would remind UNCLE more of a successful THRUSH than a benevolent government.

I have however edited my first post about this as per UNCLE's thoughts about Centrum, they would be equally distrusting of Centrum.

Last edited by starslayer; 03-26-2016 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:09 AM   #12
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

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Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
Infinity is the better of the two major players in the dimension war, but they are not lilly white, and quite frankly some of their behavior is downright reprehensible.

1. They have allowed private enterprise to completely control a whole world so that they can make a rome themepark.

2. They routinely ruin the lives of other world scientists who may be in a position to develop dimensional travel (up to and including kidnapping them and dropping them off at coventry).

3. Their for-profit business model allows those with money to go and exploit whoever they please (I-cops in theory police this, but the fact that the book even lists I-cops as needing to stop rings of thieves that go to other worlds to kidnap famous people and then sell them into slavery indicates that they are not properly enabled or there aren't enough of them for the number of conveyors they are renting out)

4. Despite having access to literally unlimited resources somehow homeline has not yet arrived at a post-scarcity society.


#2, and #4 would be of particularly concern to a fully informed UNCLE.

#2 because it shows a strong 'anyone not on homeline is not as important as those on homeline' viewpoint of things, a concept of 'less then whole' for offworlders.

#4 because it shows that there is top level manipulation of the distribution of wealth on a scale that would remind UNCLE more of a successful THRUSH than a benevolent government.

I have however edited my first post about this as per UNCLE's thoughts about Centrum, they would be equally distrusting of Centrum.
1. It's very much unlikely that Infinity agents would mention that embarrassment while being interrogated, or ever.

2. Man From UNCLE once had an episode where they framed a man for stealing state funds because they were worried that his continued rise to power might increase East-West tensions. (Yes it was a surplus Mission Impossible script adapted to fit but still...)

3. UNCLE lives in a world that roughly corresponds with the 1960s except that it's swarming with deranged masterminds out of James Bond films. The kinds of crimes that Homeline criminals get up to would be nothing new to to them as well as budget and authority limitations that keep Infinity from eliminating them all until they make too big a stir.

4. Nonsense. Homeline may in theory have access to unlimited resources but in actuality all of the resources it has access to have costs to extract, move, process and market, whether they are trading for them or extracting them from vacant worlds. Homeline is comparatively rich, certainly, but there's no reason to expect it to be "post-scarcity" and still less of for UNCLE which doesn't come from the 21st century and is sponsored by a loose coalition of capitalist states and Communist dictatorships...not that much unlike Infinity's sponsors.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 03-26-2016 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:41 PM   #13
dcarson
 
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

From the books you have a group that builds a device to kill everyone in the world neatly, not blow it up. A THRUSH built space station to rule the world. An invisible dirigible (if I remember it's an invisible sphere generator mounted in a dirigible since a moving invisible hemisphere in the ground kind of makes you obvious). At least two mind control plots. So lots of weird science based on the books.
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Old 03-28-2016, 12:15 AM   #14
Johnny1A.2
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

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Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
Infinity is the better of the two major players in the dimension war, but they are not lilly white, and quite frankly some of their behavior is downright reprehensible.

1. They have allowed private enterprise to completely control a whole world so that they can make a rome themepark.

2. They routinely ruin the lives of other world scientists who may be in a position to develop dimensional travel (up to and including kidnapping them and dropping them off at coventry).

3. Their for-profit business model allows those with money to go and exploit whoever they please (I-cops in theory police this, but the fact that the book even lists I-cops as needing to stop rings of thieves that go to other worlds to kidnap famous people and then sell them into slavery indicates that they are not properly enabled or there aren't enough of them for the number of conveyors they are renting out)
If U.N.C.L.E. learns of the outsiders first, yeah, they'll see them both as outside invaders manipulating their world for their own ends (which is true enough). THRUSH would see them as potential rivals and also resources (though we never do learn what really lies behind and above THRUSH, even U.N.C.L.E. isn't sure about that), so it's hard to say exactly what THRUSH would want to do.

I think it would be a matter of luck which faction learns of the other first, it would depend on how much Infinity/Centrum activity is going on, and how many resources they have in play, and what they do.

U.N.C.L.E. would, if they learned enough to distinguish them, probably see Infinity as the lesser evil, if necessary to be allied with against Centrum, but they'd want them both stopped. They'd also want access to conveyor/projector tech, of course.
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:46 PM   #15
Madd Kossack 115
 
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

I know I'm resurrecting a dead thread, but I have taken it from another user that it's ok if the reply is on topic. That said, I think that a way to expand this "GURPS meets The Man From U.N.C.L.E." crossover is factoring in the Guy Ritchie movie, which acts as an origin story for the organization.

To give a rapid-fire summary of the film, it explains how Napoleon Solo and Ilya Kuryakin were originally enemies because, well, Cold War, CIA, KGB, Spy vs. Spy, etc. However, when some Italian neo-fascists plan to manufacture and sell off a nuclear bomb to some Nazi remnants, Solo and Kuryakin are both put on the case (and forced to work together) to defuse a potentially apocalyptic situation. Ultimately, Solo and Kuryakin learned to work together as a genuine team, and took down the Italian neo-fascists, with the end of the film showing that U.N.C.L.E. had been formed as an international organization, starting by sending Solo and Kuryakin on a new case.

I'm not sure what reception of the film is among those more familiar with the TV show (it was a box office bomb, but it does seem to have an average review score from critics, and a cult classic fanbase), but considering U.N.C.L.E.'s origins seem to be a repeat of the last time the USA and USSR teamed up (i.e. beating on some fascists trying to get both of them), I think that T.H.R.U.S.H. is similarly a neo-fascist organization, albeit one that's expanded beyond a handful of European reactionaries. Granted, the show itself frames it more like a Red Scare (with THRUSH being a play on SMERSH, and their mooks being close to "bad guy Russians" in most '60s spy shows), but seeing as it's a threat where the USSR is fully cooperating with the West to stop them, it probably makes the most sense that T.H.R.U.S.H. is a "Third Position" to oppose both the East and West at the same time.

But to get back to how Infinity and Centrum would react to the Man from U.N.C.L.E. world... Well, that depends on which Infinity or Centrum we're talking about. The rulebook itself presents "Light" and "Dark" alternatives for both Centrum and Homeline, with a "Light" Centrum emphasizing it's anti-bigotry and pro-environmentalist traits while having a democratic parliament (and showing a "Centrum Dark" which throws the few redeeming traits of the default Centrum for a fully Stalinist dictatorship where a massive gulag system keeps countless prisoners enslaved), while a "Dark" Infinity would be a MegaCorp stuffed to the brim with Corrupt Corporate Executives that seek to economically exploit the infinite worlds for all they're worth. But let's suppose the discussion is purely about the "default" Infinity and Centrum, with Infinity as the good guys, and Centrum, while not AS bad as OTL Stalinst Russia or Reich 5, are the Usual Adversaries in a "Star Trek Federation vs. Klingon" sense.

Assuming they both drop into the world to try finding some potential super-gadgets to acquire for themselves, or perhaps trying to guide the world through its Cold War, it's likely that Infinity would overall support U.N.C.L.E. against T.H.R.U.S.H. (at least, from a long-distance relationship to not blow The Secret), while Centrum may be on the fence over who to support, although the default Centrum (not to be confused with the democratic "Centrum Light" and the full-on mass gulag "Centrum Dark") would tepidly support U.N.C.L.E. due to T.H.R.U.S.H., while a potential world unifier, also being WAY too chaotic and cruel in its methods to reliably trust, compared with having an Western-Soviet Alliance with U.N.C.L.E. that at least won't wipe out the world's population with some crazy nerve gas or other superweapon.

This does leave the question of who IS funding T.H.R.U.S.H. to the point they're a full-on Nebulous Evil Organization (and more importantly, how they'll still be a threat if Infinity or Centrum decide to bring the hammer down on their ops), so the easy answer is Reich 5's Raven Division (who want payback on the capitalist and communist "untermensch" who tag-teamed their oh-so-precious-Reich in this timeline, but have to be even more covert to not be pegged), or either Centrum Dark or Homeline Dark, if playing a Homeline/Centrum Light campaign where the other side of the parachronic war is the enemy instead of Reich-5.

I do think it should be up to the GMs on how they'd want to show The Man From U.N.C.L.E. crossover with Infinite Worlds, and who (if anybody) is backing up their respective agencies.
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:46 AM   #16
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

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Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2 View Post
If U.N.C.L.E. learns of the outsiders first, yeah, they'll see them both as outside invaders manipulating their world for their own ends (which is true enough). .
Centrum would be trying to infiltrate the leadership of both THRUSH and UNCLE. Homeline wouldn't have much interest in manipulating the world apart from their reflexive trying to spoke Centrum's wheel. Other than that they'd just be trading and keeping track of the local physics publications.
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Old 01-19-2019, 06:11 AM   #17
dcarson
 
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

I like the book version of THRUSH.

Quote:
Plot, concerning a device that could wipe out all existance, is a bit far-out. But McDaniel’s origin of Thrush — that it began as a remnant of Professor Moriarty’s criminal organization — has been adopted by many fans as the definitive version. It was McDaniel who came up with the idea that Thrush originally was an acronym standing for the Technical Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the Subjudgation of Humanity. Also amusing is how UNCLE and Thrush have to work together temporarily.
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Old 01-19-2019, 12:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

Here's a thought: T.H.R.U.S.H. is being covertly funded by both Centrum Dark and Homeline Dark. Meanwhile, standard Homeline and standard Centrum are reluctantly cooperating in funding the U.N.C.L.E., as they know that T.H.R.U.S.H. is funded by very evil outtimers, but not who they are. They're going to be massively disturbed when they find out, as they didn't think Centrum Dark nor Homeline Dark existed, and either would be a serious threat by itself.

Meanwhile, Homeline Light and Centrum Light have formed a peace and cooperation treaty, blissfully unaware of the others.
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Old 01-19-2019, 01:47 PM   #19
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

Centrum would definitely detect THRUSH, because Infinite Worlds makes it fairly clear that Centrum began as a THRUSH-style organization and triggered their Final War so they could sieze power. They would probably co-opt THRUSH to teach them how to do it right.

(Incidentally this is why Centrum allegedly has no echoes. They do have echoes, but Centrum deliberately suppresses knowledge of them because to any cliodynamics expert it would be fairly obvious what past-Centrum was up to.)

Infinity might have to enter the spy-game as a third force to keep Centrum-backed THRUSH from steamrollering the Free World. Or THRUSH might reject these aliens and join forces with UNCLE to fight off the invaders, allowing Infinity to sit back and munch popcorn.
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Old 01-19-2019, 03:04 PM   #20
Madd Kossack 115
 
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Default Re: Travelling to the World of U.N.C.L.E.

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Here's a thought: T.H.R.U.S.H. is being covertly funded by both Centrum Dark and Homeline Dark. Meanwhile, standard Homeline and standard Centrum are reluctantly cooperating in funding the U.N.C.L.E., as they know that T.H.R.U.S.H. is funded by very evil outtimers, but not who they are. They're going to be massively disturbed when they find out, as they didn't think Centrum Dark nor Homeline Dark existed, and either would be a serious threat by itself.

Meanwhile, Homeline Light and Centrum Light have formed a peace and cooperation treaty, blissfully unaware of the others.
Well, the concepts of the Dark/Light versions of Centrum and Homeline is that it's meant to be up to the GM's decision on which world is which alignment, to facilitate how they run a campaign from either an Infinity Patrol or Interworld Service game (i.e. Infinity campaign is from Homeline Light and fighting against either Centrum Neutral or Centrum Dark, Interworld campaign is from Centrum Light and fighting against Homeline Dark, a Centrum Dark AND Homeline Dark has the PCs going rogue to fight both, or a Homeline Light AND Centrum Light has them learn to cooperate against larger threats, usually Reich-5).

That said, having a sudden discovery that there are Echoes of both worlds so that there are Light and Dark copies of both factions can lead to a sizable crisis that would have the Light worlds scrambling Everywhen (including U.N.C.L.E.'s world) to stop their Dark copies - just make sure the other guys have their goatees! XD
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