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Old 11-18-2011, 12:46 PM   #1
professorchaos54
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

The 3rd Edition to 4th Edition conversion states that No-Landing Extraction is no longer a separate skill, but a manueuver for the Piloting skill. This does not cover the same skill-set at all. The original skill covered the men on the ground [U]being[U] extracted. The piloting skills of the extractee is irrelevant.

Somewhere on this forum, it was stated that under 4th edition, the new skill for the person being extracted is Packing. Again, this makes absolutely no sense. Packing is specifically for loading pack animals. What in the world does this have to do with setting up a rig for an airplane to pick you up?

Make No-Landing Extraction its own, separate 4e skill. Of course this problem could be rectified easily by releasing a 4e Special Ops, or a 4e Black Ops (definitely overdue, in my opinion.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:40 PM   #2
pieclone
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorchaos54 View Post
The 3rd Edition to 4th Edition conversion states that No-Landing Extraction is no longer a separate skill, but a manueuver for the Piloting skill. This does not cover the same skill-set at all. The original skill covered the men on the ground [U]being[U] extracted. The piloting skills of the extractee is irrelevant.
How is piloting skill irrelevant to No-Landing Extraction? The pilot must maintain a steady speed and course and aim his aircraft at a slim cable whilst avoiding dragging it into cables or shearing sections of the wing off etc. This surely requires skill does it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorchaos54 View Post
Somewhere on this forum, it was stated that under 4th edition, the new skill for the person being extracted is Packing. Again, this makes absolutely no sense. Packing is specifically for loading pack animals. What in the world does this have to do with setting up a rig for an airplane to pick you up?
Packing skill represents ensuring everything is secure and in the right place and will not slip out of straps etc. I personally think this makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorchaos54 View Post
Make No-Landing Extraction its own, separate 4e skill. Of course this problem could be rectified easily by releasing a 4e Special Ops, or a 4e Black Ops (definitely overdue, in my opinion.
Whilst I would love to see a 4e BlOps or SpOps I don't think the info in 3e SpOps is that out of date. You can always introduce the skill in your own game :)

I re-read your initial paragraph and you're referring to Pilot skills for the extractee - that would be silly. Piloting is only relevant for the chap behind the yoke, the extractee's job is staying still as possible and making sure he's securely strapped in and positioned.

Last edited by pieclone; 11-18-2011 at 01:47 PM. Reason: I am a biff and misread what you were saying...
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:41 PM   #3
Refplace
 
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

I would call it a technique off of Parachuting.
As for the packing skill your right that does not make sense since that is specific to animals. Where did you see these conversion notes? I just quickly checked my copy of GURPS Update and did not see them.
Packing your chute is part of the parachute skill IMHO as its a core thing taught to everyone who does this.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:02 PM   #4
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

basic p233 have No-Landing Extraction
-a hard technique of the pilot skill for the pilot (default piloting-4)
-a freight handling(p197) skill roll ground side (to set up the gear)
(which is definitively not animal packing)

It make sense to me.

Celjabba

Last edited by Celjabba; 11-19-2011 at 09:37 AM.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:36 PM   #5
Refplace
 
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
basic p233 have No-Landing Extraction
-a hard technique of the pilot skill for the pilot (default piloting-4)
-a freight handling(p197) skill roll ground side
(which is definitively not animal packing)

It make sense to me.

Celjabba
Ah Freight handling, forgot about that skill.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:49 PM   #6
Whitestreak
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

Frankly, having worked with the Fulton Extraction System (never rode it - I'm crazy, not suicidal), there is absolutely no skill whatsoever required for the person being extracted.

The pilot and flight crew have the most demanding work of the entire evolution, while the ground crew have to be properly trained.

The 3E version always annoyed the crap out of me when it was used for the extractee. The 4E version pretty much fits the reality of the system
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:45 AM   #7
malloyd
 
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

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Originally Posted by Whitestreak View Post
Frankly, having worked with the Fulton Extraction System (never rode it - I'm crazy, not suicidal), there is absolutely no skill whatsoever required for the person being extracted.
After all, the rules need to work for inanimate cargo too. I'm pretty sure mail planes have used a similar technique to pick up stuff posted from places that lack a landing field.
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:37 AM   #8
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitestreak View Post
Frankly, having worked with the Fulton Extraction System (never rode it - I'm crazy, not suicidal), there is absolutely no skill whatsoever required for the person being extracted.

The pilot and flight crew have the most demanding work of the entire evolution, while the ground crew have to be properly trained.

The 3E version always annoyed the crap out of me when it was used for the extractee. The 4E version pretty much fits the reality of the system
But there is a ground crew component to the procedure?
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Old 11-19-2011, 11:40 AM   #9
Whitestreak
 
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen View Post
But there is a ground crew component to the procedure?
Yes.

That's reflected in the Freight Handling requirement.

It's been a while since I've been involved, but you have to prepare the balloon, set the flight path of the hook plane, prepare the extractee by fitting the harness and facing him away from the flight path, and make sure that ground folks are out of the area before the contact is made. You can use three ground crew at a minimum, but four or more is better - lots more if you're having to secure the location.

The flight crew has to be well trained, also. Even the crews who snatched space capsules drifting down on parachutes had to be well practiced.

Probably the best look at a use of the Fulton Extraction System is in John Wayne's movie, "The Green Berets." It's fairly spot on, without showing the danger.

Yes, it's dangerous, especially for the extractee - several were injured in the development and training process, which led to the use of a dummy during exercises.
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Old 11-19-2011, 02:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: 4th Edition No Landing Extraction

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
After all, the rules need to work for inanimate cargo too. I'm pretty sure mail planes have used a similar technique to pick up stuff posted from places that lack a landing field.
Yes. They used to use it for the mail run in the Falklands when the place was still serviced by red-eye flights from RAF Wideawake on Ascencion.
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