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Old 07-28-2022, 12:18 PM   #1
Coinage
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Ability to impose new law of nature?

Hello everyone. I was wondering. Is there a way to grant a character to impose a new law of nature? I guess, strictly speaking, it would be the ability to alter the behaviour of matter so that it adopts a new regularity? Obviously, this would be limited to a god-like immaterial spirit, so I would be very reticent to give it to players. I would probably not, but I just want to stat the ability to get a good feel for it.

Also, I don't want it to be used willy-nilly. My idea is that the changes in physical constants would either be: (1) used at some of "big bang" event, or at a location of Prima Materia, or (2) gradually, so that it seems imperceptible to the average person.

Would I need to grant a cosmic version of Probability Alteration to trigger an Ontoclysm / Reality Quake? Maybe it should be some version of the Domain power from Pyramid #3-63 Infinite Worlds II, or the Jumper (Pocket Dimension), specifically the Malleable Physics enhancement. Or, is it some other option?

Thanks everyone.
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Old 07-28-2022, 12:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

I would certainly call it Cosmic, but I wouldn't call it Probability Alteration. I would likely base it on Control, in the very high cost version that affects fundamental abstractions like Space. And then you'd have to think about how big a radius you wanted. Affecting the whole cosmos would need a huge number of levels.

Though in GURPS Powers: The Weird, I treated something like this as Gadgeteer with Cosmic, Items Need Not Obey Local Laws of Physics, +50%, and Cosmic, Lingering Effect, +100%. That would come to 63 points for regular Gadgeteering and 125 points for Quick Gadgeteering.
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Old 07-28-2022, 12:45 PM   #3
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

This seems like an NPC ability to me and thus not something to be stated. Or maybe Ultrapower. Or some ability to control reality with Extended Duration or Cosmic, Lingering Effect.

You actually could have "Control Realty" as a form of Godlike Control. (I price it at 60/level in my games and let it use control's abilities on anything.) Of course if you go that direction, you'll only be able to change the laws in a limited area (your level of Control) unless you add Super-Effort to it (you'd need 42 levels of Control to cover the Earth - *way* more to cover the whole Universe)
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Old 07-28-2022, 01:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
I would certainly call it Cosmic, but I wouldn't call it Probability Alteration. I would likely base it on Control, in the very high cost version that affects fundamental abstractions like Space. And then you'd have to think about how big a radius you wanted. Affecting the whole cosmos would need a huge number of levels.

Though in GURPS Powers: The Weird, I treated something like this as Gadgeteer with Cosmic, Items Need Not Obey Local Laws of Physics, +50%, and Cosmic, Lingering Effect, +100%. That would come to 63 points for regular Gadgeteering and 125 points for Quick Gadgeteering.
I was basing the idea of Probability Manipulation on the idea of an indeterminsitic universe. To oversimplify, the laws of nature would be just Regularities, not mechanical Necessities. A powerful spirit, or higher-dimensional entity, could then alter the normal regular course of matter, causing matter to adopt new regular behavior.

I am thinking of, for example, how wonders could emerge from areas where matter is being very chaotic and could bring about a wide-range of outcomes, such as areas of extreme Wild Mana that can cause wonders , as seen in Celtic Myth. A godlike being could tweak such areas to bring about highly improbable, but still possible outcomes. However, in areas where matter has "settled", like normal everyday life, then the spirit has to work in ways that appear to normal humans to be like luck or fortune.

However, I saw your suggestion on Powers: The Weird. It even says: "If you also take Cosmic, Lingering effect (for a further +100%), you can create multiple devices based on your prototype or even put it into production – you’ve permanently changed the laws of nature!" (pg. 4).

That's a great suggestion. I probably am going to need to figure what exactly they are inventing. Possibly I could just generally call it "new physical regularities", and then use the Gadgeteering rules.

Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 07-28-2022, 01:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
This seems like an NPC ability to me and thus not something to be stated. Or maybe Ultrapower. Or some ability to control reality with Extended Duration or Cosmic, Lingering Effect.

You actually could have "Control Realty" as a form of Godlike Control. (I price it at 60/level in my games and let it use control's abilities on anything.) Of course if you go that direction, you'll only be able to change the laws in a limited area (your level of Control) unless you add Super-Effort to it (you'd need 42 levels of Control to cover the Earth - *way* more to cover the whole Universe)
I would probably avoid that, since it is too broad. I will have to look at the Ultrapower suggestion. thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 07-30-2022, 05:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
This seems like an NPC ability to me...
It's exactly within the bounds of an Amberite's Pattern ability... so well within a PC's capability if someone were running GURPS Amber.

Which I occasionally contemplate about doing and then stop when I get to "and how do I build Pattern in GURPS rules".
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Old 07-30-2022, 05:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

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It's exactly within the bounds of an Amberite's Pattern ability... so well within a PC's capability if someone were running GURPS Amber.

Which I occasionally contemplate about doing and then stop when I get to "and how do I build Pattern in GURPS rules".
I mean...yeah. But it's still probably not something you'd stat up for most games. I've only allowed realty manipulators in my god game and my supers game. And even then no one really had full on realty alteration - just subsets of it.
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Old 07-30-2022, 06:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I mean...yeah. But it's still probably not something you'd stat up for most games. I've only allowed realty manipulators in my god game and my supers game. And even then no one really had full on realty alteration - just subsets of it.
GURPS Powers: The Weird has the ability of Demiurgy, which is founded on Illusion with some Cosmic enhancements. It's a reality manipulation ability, but one that has to overcome resistance if there are sapient observers other than yourself.
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Old 07-30-2022, 06:19 PM   #9
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

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GURPS Powers: The Weird has the ability of Demiurgy, which is founded on Illusion with some Cosmic enhancements. It's a reality manipulation ability, but one that has to overcome resistance if there are sapient observers other than yourself.
Yes. And I don't use it because it's broken for all the reasons I tried to get you to not include it in the playtest we had on it.
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Old 07-30-2022, 06:28 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ability to impose new law of nature?

While a lot of the Amber series would likely be best done as powers I think the Pattern is something I would do more as a magic thing, probably Pattern! as a skill and using Impulse Buys for much of it as that allows some narrative function and permanent changes already baked in.
Just off the top of my head though, never really thought about it till just the last couple of minutes.
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