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Old 04-17-2022, 12:15 PM   #1
Phantasm
 
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Default [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

I'm pretty sure this has been spelled out somewhere, either in a Spaceships publication or in one of the Pyramids, but I can't find it.

Basically, where are the rules for adding multiple levels of Hardened to the dDR of Armor and Force Screen modules when using Spaceships?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 04-18-2022, 09:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

I've been patient. I asked this question four times on the discord server before posting here.

And I keep getting ignored. Watching the thread drop to the second page with few views and 0 replies is disheartening, to say the least.

So if the answer is "they don't exist", then dammit, SAY THAT! Don't just leave me hanging.

I thought someone would reply to this before now. :(
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Old 04-18-2022, 09:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post

I thought someone would reply to this before now. :(
Sorry, there's been other stuff I had to do and my Spaceships collection is in the midst of my IPad update issues. For example, my older IPad is at zero power right now while I've been reading Kindle stuff on my new one.

So without doing a lot of downloading right not you'll have to rely on my memory. That says that 1 level of Hardened for both Force Screens and Armor is in Book One. Book Seven introduces the possibility of 2 levels of Hardened for Armor but doesn't do anything for Force Screens.

I'd find it an easy house rule but I'm afraid that's where you are.

Oh, and I'm not on Discord at all.
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Old 04-18-2022, 10:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

Well, I saw your OP when I was about to go to bed, and I'm only now looking at the forums again.

So far as I know, SS1 is the only mention of hardening, and it only mentions a single level. I'm not super familiar with the whole body of Pyramid articles on SS, so it's possible there's mention in there somewhere.

So you're houseruling. Its value is going to depend strongly on whether weapons with better than (2) are standard on spaceships. Also, for force screens it's of limited utility if exotic beams are in use because they ignore hardening (SS67).
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Old 04-19-2022, 05:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

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Its value is going to depend strongly on whether weapons with better than (2) are standard on spaceships. Also, for force screens it's of limited utility if exotic beams are in use because they ignore hardening (SS67).
Well, I tend to use particle beams and X-ray lasers with AD (5) on my spacecraft, and I've been using rainbow lasers with AD (3) on various atmospheric craft like mecha - and that's not getting into anti-tank warheads with AD (10) used against tanks, APCs/IFVs, and mecha (not sure what anti-aircraft/spacecraft missiles would have as their warheads). So I at least want two or maybe three levels of Hardened to protect against their own weaponry...
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Old 04-19-2022, 07:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

"Hardened" against all sources of armor divisors is probably too abstract for really detailed vehicular combat. High-Tech notably doesn't use it for laminated composites.

ETA: Using the generic hardened with layers it probably is supposed to work by each layer in order as per "Layered Defenses" p..B47. So you reduce the armor divisor a number of steps per the Hardened level of the force shield, then reset it and reduce it by the Hardened level of the outer armor layer and so on.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 04-19-2022 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 04-19-2022, 07:36 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

Obviously house-rule territory, but part of me feels allowing one to replace armor with infinitely-hardened, semi-ablative armor at no charge might not be inappropriate. Perhaps allow higher armor divisors to ablate it a bit faster, if you want the difference between rainbow laser and particle beam to matter; offhand, I'd say AD (2) to (3) removes 1 DR per 7 damage, (5) removes 1 DR per 5 damage, and (10) removes 1 DR per 3 damage, perhaps. That makes it easier to make your vehicles proof against their own attacks... for a few hits.
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Old 04-19-2022, 07:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

I don't mind house-ruling this with a new Design Feature/Switch of "Super-Hardened Armor" and "Super-Hardened Force Screens". Pricing suggestions? (For reference, Hardened 1 for Armor is canonically double cost, and on Force Screens +50% cost.)
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Old 04-19-2022, 07:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

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Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
I don't mind house-ruling this with a new Design Feature/Switch of "Super-Hardened Armor" and "Super-Hardened Force Screens". Pricing suggestions? (For reference, Hardened 1 for Armor is canonically double cost, and on Force Screens +50% cost.)
The enhancement is a flat +20%/level, so probably just doubling and +50% per level, respectively. You might reasonably to restrict it to laminate armor construction.

Note that more than four levels on armor isn't worth it if indestructible armor is available.
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Old 04-19-2022, 02:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Multiple levels of Hardened on Armor and Force Screens?

SS3/35 has the design switch Greater Survivability which gives one level of Hardened for free, so adding Hardened gives a second level.

I checked the three Spaceship Pyramids with the pdf search function and didnīt find anything about higher levels of Hardened.
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