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Old 08-26-2019, 03:07 PM   #1
Grayscale
 
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Default ST10 thief forces few doors?

So, I'm working on a sort of thief character atm the so mostly my mind is set on thieving things.

Looking at LT 122, there are rules for breaking and entering. I'm mostly interested at forcing a bolt, instead of breaking a door. So, if I'm not mistaken reading the rules, a character with ST (10), Lifting ST (0), Forced Entry at DX+1(1), using a pry-bar (2) forcing the following bolts results in the following quick contests:
  • Ligh bolt: QC of 10 vs 6 (seems easy enough)
  • Average bolt: QC of 7 vs 12 (now, this is kinda hairy; an average thief has a 10% chance of forcing an average bolt)
  • Heavy bolt: QC 4 vs 18 (chance for the thief 0.05%)
  • X-heavy bolt: QC of 1 vs 23 (effectively impossible)

Now, X-heavy bolts I don't mind, but shouldn't this thief have at least a moderate chance of forcing an average bolt and at least some chance of forcing a heavy bolt?


Editing: perhaps extra-effort is the answer here? Making a Will-based forced entry roll and then adding 5% x margin of success to ST?

Last edited by Grayscale; 08-26-2019 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

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Originally Posted by Exallted View Post
a character with ST (10), Lifting ST (0), Forced Entry at DX+1(1), using a pry-bar (2) ...
shouldn't this thief have at least a moderate chance of forcing an average bolt and at least some chance of forcing a heavy bolt?
An average bolt should stop an average thief, or at least give them a hard time.

You might want to use the "taking extra time" rules here.
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

Extra Effort and Taking Extra Time will both help.

The correct tools are required too. There isn't much point in carrying around a lockpick in a setting where lockbolts are commonly used. A regular prybar gives the above results but a longer, heavier one will give bonuses. A small battering ram might be useful too; it works for SWAT and the DEA. You wouldn't carry them around in your backpack all day but if you were going on a specific planned break-and-enter mission, you would bring them along.
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Last edited by DanHoward; 08-27-2019 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

You guys believe extra time should apply tp forcing the doors?

I was under the general impression it shouldn't, given that forced entry does not specify time required per attempt under it's description.
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:05 PM   #5
evileeyore
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

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You guys believe extra time should apply tp forcing the doors?
Of course. If you got the time and freedom to make a racket levering at the door.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

"Repeated attempts are at a
cumulative -1 and cost 1 FP each."
Box p. 122. Being the last sentence, I think it applies to all approaches described in the box. It would make sense.

The large crowbar (p. 30) doesn't list a bonus to break in; but it would make sense if it gave a better bonus than the pry-bar (say, +4). Note it would be pretty conspicuous to carry around outside a mine (5'-6' length).
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

If noise and time aren't an issue just about every door will be able to be defeated by a thief. If nothing else some part of your building probably has wood walls and even a child can swing a hatchet. Ordinary security is meant to discourage people from easily accessing your belongings. High security is mean to require excessive force and noise to defeat.
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Old 08-27-2019, 12:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

I don't think I'd go quite so far. Metal reinforced doors with multiple heavy deadbolts would likely keep me out regardless of portable tools and skill. But those would be more vaults than mere doors, IMO.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Of course. If you got the time and freedom to make a racket levering at the door.
In this case, applying a equivalent bonus to an opposing part Hearing roll should balance things out nicely: e.g. +1 to break down the door = +1 to Hearing roll.
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Old 08-28-2019, 03:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: ST10 thief forces few doors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Extra Effort and Taking Extra Time will both help.

The correct tools are required too. There isn't much point in carrying around a lockpick in a setting where lockbolts are commonly used. A regular prybar gives the above results but a longer, heavier one will give bonuses. A small battering ram might be useful too; it works for SWAT and the DEA. You wouldn't carry them around in your backpack all day but if you were going on a specific planned break-and-enter mission, you would bring them along.
A screw jack should be LT as well shouldn't it? I recall the hydraulic version appearing in GURPS rules (3ED Cops?) but an iron screw should be obtainable from TL2 upwards and should be able to breach most doors relatively quietly if you have a solid floor to work off.
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