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Old 08-31-2014, 09:52 PM   #21
simply Nathan
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Not View Post
Any chance I can get Invisibility, machines only [20] for half price by claiming that the computer memory of a robot counts as a "record"?
No, but maybe you can get Zeroed for 1/5 price claiming it's part of the same ability. You pay full price for the most expensive trait.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Not View Post
Any chance I can get Invisibility, machines only [20] for half price by claiming that the computer memory of a robot counts as a "record"?
Nope. You'll still be visible on surveillance cameras, and robots will see you just fine. There will just be no official record of you, and the recordings taken will subsequently vanish.

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Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans View Post
No, but maybe you can get Zeroed for 1/5 price claiming it's part of the same ability. You pay full price for the most expensive trait.
Zeroed only makes sense if it's always on. Plus, there's a lot of other components to it besides disappearing from video recordings. I wouldn't allow it as an AA.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
The bolded text is what I had in mind. Through the story you somehow manage to destroy all your records (or have someone do it for you). But unlike the full version of Zeroed there's nothing to prevent the authorities from building a new record of you.
I'm not sure that one-use Zeroed actually makes that much sense then. However:
GM: The guardsmen are going around the common room with a broadsheet and comparing it to the faces of each man in turn.
Player: Um, can I spend two points for one-use Zeroed?
GM: Explain.
Player: Okay. Remember how Guildmaster Shadowknife owes me one? The Thieves have infiltrated the guard, right? So maybe he had the witness testimony and everything replaced?
GM: Sure. When they get to you they stare at your face, and back at the broadsheet and then move on. You get a good look at the drawing, and it resembles you about as well as the Unibomber sketch resembled Ted Kazinsky...
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I'm not sure that one-use Zeroed actually makes that much sense then.
Heh, to be honest I don't think Zeroed itself makes much sense to begin with.

And yeah, you could allow the players to spend points to declare things that happened off-screen in the past. I still think it's equivalent to saying, "A locked door? Oh, over the last month my character was practicing with a lockpick. Here's 2 cp." Some GMs may allow that. I'd be hesitant unless the request seems very reasonable and in keeping with the character. I generally reserve such things for skills that should have been on the character sheet to begin with, but were left off by oversight (for example, a burglar who forgot to buy Lockpicking).

Anyways, enough of a tangent. Sorry about that. =P
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
Heh, to be honest I don't think Zeroed itself makes much sense to begin with.
Agents Jay and Kay have something like this, as do other MIBs and MIB-like things (like the Technocratic kind with Arcane in MtA).
Quote:
And yeah, you could allow the players to spend points to declare things that happened off-screen in the past.
I don't think that's out of scope compared to Player Guidance or Favors in Play.

Alternatively:
Session n:
GM: Shadowknives says, "Hey kid, I owe you one". Go ahead, and put a two point Favor on your character sheet.

Session n+p:
GM: The guardsmen are going around the common room with a broadsheet and comparing it to the faces of each man in turn.
Player: Um, can I use that favor from Shadowknives as a one-use Zeroed instead of a Patron?
GM: Explain.
Player: Well, he's got agents in the guards right? Maybe they replaced all the witness testimony and sketches with fakes?
GM: Sure. When they get to you they stare at your face, and back at the broadsheet and then move on. You get a good look at the drawing, and it resembles you about as well as the Unibomber sketch resembled Ted Kazinsky...
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I still think it's equivalent to saying, "A locked door? Oh, over the last month my character was practicing with a lockpick. Here's 2 cp." Some GMs may allow that.
No it's different. There's rules for one-use abilities in both Impulse Buys and Supers (as well as the rules for favors in the Basic Set). One-use skills require Wild Talent normally. Otherwise there's very specific and restrictive rules for learning skills. You can't by RAW even just spend points on new skills between game sessions, only on skills that you already have points in that saw significant use.
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
Anyways, enough of a tangent. Sorry about that. =P
No apology necessary; I am not even sure if this counts as a tangent. This series of threads involves discussing the Advantage (or Advantages) being highlighted, including potential uses, ruling questions and whether or not you think they are any good. In fact, this line of discussion may actually be hitting all three. >.>

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Zeroed says, "You must provide a reason for this; e.g., your parents hid you away at birth, you are legally dead, or you somehow managed to destroy all the records (explain how!)."
Quote:
Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
The bolded text is what I had in mind. Through the story you somehow manage to destroy all your records (or have someone do it for you). But unlike the full version of Zeroed there's nothing to prevent the authorities from building a new record of you.
Wait a minute... isn't that an issue of misplaced emphasis?

Quote:
You must provide a reason for this; e.g., your parents hid you away at birth, you are legally dead, or you somehow managed to destroy all the records (explain how!).
So you only need one of the three example reasons or something comparable; you don't need two or more (though there is no problem if your background does have multiple justifications).

Quote:
Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
And yeah, you could allow the players to spend points to declare things that happened off-screen in the past. I still think it's equivalent to saying, "A locked door? Oh, over the last month my character was practicing with a lockpick. Here's 2 cp." Some GMs may allow that. I'd be hesitant unless the request seems very reasonable and in keeping with the character. I generally reserve such things for skills that should have been on the character sheet to begin with, but were left off by oversight (for example, a burglar who forgot to buy Lockpicking).
If players don't have to catalog how they spent their time in detail or have some deadline for when they can pay for having studied a skill, someone asking if they can retroactively pay some points for something they could have plausibly studied seems quite fair.

Edit: Late night/early posting is never a good idea... or maybe I'd have made the same mistake no matter what. sir_pudding explained why below is flat out wrong. Maybe he meant the preceding but as well but the main thing was that I wanted to save confusing/misleading anyone else (not like I haven't already undermined some of my earlier points). [/Edit]

If they never had to make a check against it before, there isn't even a need to retcon. If they did... sure there's a small retcon but the player likely already paid the penalty:

Player: Another lock? Instead of waiting for me to get a lucky roll, how about I spend this two CP on buying the Skill. Apparently that last lock that took so long was very informative and a good learning experience! We could even say I've been studying it a little in my spare time, and its now just finally clicked. That or retcon it that I just rolled poorly on the other locks.

Edit: I think below is still accurate as well... but I didn't leave myself time to do much more than this right now. ^^'

sir_pudding of course is far more knowledgeable than myself and has covered the various rules for allowing the actual purchase of a One Use Ever Zeroed.

Actually, I am curious; "One Use Ever" for Zeroed... should that be handled as "You're Zeroed until the first time someone documents your existence." or "For this one particular instance, no one recognizes you." ?
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Last edited by Otaku; 09-01-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:29 AM   #27
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

Something that was missed at least once when Zeroed came up before is that a Zeroed character can be legally dead instead of completely lacking any record in the paper machine.
E.g. Madness Dossier p.16. Conspiracy-X also has a Dead [10] trait that is essentially a variant of Zeroed (the book says so).
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Old 09-01-2014, 02:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Kromm
Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.

Those whose worlds don't assume forces powerful enough to wipe out arbitrarily secure records shouldn't use Zeroed. Neither should gamers who just want to be mysterious Man With No Name types. If you're simply somebody who starts play with no identity and gradually builds up a permanent record, you're not Zeroed. You have something more akin to Zeroed as a one-use advantage (1/5 cost, 2 points, like Favor), if not just a perk.

Zeroed is for people who work for the MIBs . . . or have a backdoor into SkyNet . . . or possess supernatural abilities that completely transmute them every sunset . . . or serve Oblivius, God of Nothingness. It's an active trait. It isn't just an Unusual Background.
I don't agree with that view. Lets see the description of the Advantage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Set 100
You do not officially exist. Even the highest authorities in the land know nothing about you. In a fantasy setting, you are a “mysterious wanderer”; magical divination cannot discover conclusive details about your past or true identity. In a high-tech world, you don’t appear in the public records – and if computer databases exist, they contain no evidence of your existence.
So, up to here, it doesn't say anything about this being some kind of arcane or ultraconspiracy trait. Also, it doesn't say you are impervious to divination, but only that divination cannot be used to say who you are or were (ie: it can still be used to find were you ARE).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Set 100
You must provide a reason for this; e.g., your parents hid you away at birth, you are legally dead, or you somehow managed to destroy all the records (explain how!).
All those examples gives the sensation of a rather mundane trait. If you were born in secret and kept in secret throughout life, if you get arrested the press would certainly publish your history, and you would be zeroed no more (The Joker in the movie "Batman the Dark Knight" had Zeroed. No one knows his true name or previous history, but everybody now knows he is the Joker).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basic Set 100
To maintain this status, you must deal strictly in cash or commodities. Credit and bank accounts must be blind (keyed to pass-code, not a person – the “Swiss bank account”) or set up through a Temporary Identity (see p. 31).
Again, this gives away that this is a pure mundane trait. It states clearly that you must do your best efforts to keep it (to maintain this status...). And, if you look in the book, it only has the symbol of the little handshake, witch means that its just an ordinary Social Advantage, missing the alien head symbol that would means this is a total exotic trait, as Kromm wants to imply.

But, the way Kromm would like to make this trait is still possible. Add Cosmic +300% (Godlike Tricks) to make it something otherworldly... Like the Arcanum trait of Mages (and Technocrats) of Mage the Ascension... With this enhancement, photos of you would always be blurred, any piece of paper describing you in any way would end up lost, burned, wet in acid whatever. Even if you write your own name in a metal plate, it will erode away. Even witnesses that saw you in action will be confused about the details... They'll know you are bald or albino, but won't be able to give much more details, and chances are that they won't even recognize you if they see you again. Maybe even those close to you can't remember you very well... You just seem to vanish from peoples memories, like if you were touched by Oblivion itself.

If, however, you want to have your Zeroed as part of a trait derived from a conspiracy that actively works to keep your status that way, than you should buy your Zeroed with a +10% version of Link, linked with a proper Patron (that could have a 20% version of Link here, since the Patron could help even if you screw up and reveals your true identity... But notice the use of the world "could"). So, if you are a MiB, you must have Zeroed [Link (Patron: MiB) +10%) and Patron: MiB [Link (Zeroed) +10% or +20%].

So, a One Use of the Zeroed trait would mean that the system is unable to recognize you ONCE, but all your records are still there... An explanation for this could be something like having a favor from a hacker (paid in the form of a One Use Zeroed). When the police officer checks your ID on his computer, he will get an blanket response, but only because of the virus the hacker put in the system; the virus, however, is not enough to erase your file, and it will be discovered and fixed in time to not allow you the same benefit in the future, so if any other cops get your ID, it will give you your full record. If your hacker friend manage to delete your entire file, than you get the full version of Zeroed.
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Old 09-01-2014, 02:11 AM   #29
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

In my humble opinion, legally dead should be a cheaper variant of Zeroed, because I think its easier to identify a dead person than a non-person (the record still have your picture and finger prints at least). Perhaps a -50% limitation?
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Old 09-01-2014, 03:52 AM   #30
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Alternate Identity, Temporary Identity, Zeroed

Could Zeroed be switchable ?
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