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Old 07-24-2022, 01:50 PM   #1
GURPZine
 
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Default Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

I have two limitations:
  • one, -10%
  • two, -10%

If i want both, then i have a total -20% limitation.

But if i want one OR two at will, it will cost -10%? Don't make sense, since have an option is a minor limitation then have just one.

I want to say, one or two is less limited then one and two separately.

Clear example:

GURPS Powers on page 116, under Fantasy Abilities:
Such accessibility limitations as “Requires material components,” “Requires gestures,” and “Requires magic words” are common, and worth -10% apiece.
  • Requires gestures, -10%
  • Requires magic words, -10%
  • Requires gestures and magic words, -20%
  • Requires gestures or magic words, -10% (???)

Requires gestures or magic words is less limited than Requires gestures and Requires magic words alone. It makes no sense to have the same cost.

What is the right way to calculate the modifier of an accessibility limitation that is alternative (one or another)?
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Old 07-24-2022, 02:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

Selectivity, +10% (B108) but for limitations explain the cost -10%.

And if i have limitations of -40% and -30%, if i want to select one OR another, it would cost -60% (not -70%) because of selectivity?
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

There is a paragraph regarding either/or limitations somewhere, but I don't exactly remember where, possibly the power ups series?
I don't have that book, so can't be sure
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
There is a paragraph regarding either/or limitations somewhere, but I don't exactly remember where, possibly the power ups series?
Power-Ups 8: Limitations, p. 6.
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Power-Ups 8: Limitations, p. 6.
Multilpying the fraction as suggested in PU8 produces results that seemed too chintzy to me. In the case here, it gives a -1% Limitation. (Which obviously is sharply and inexplicably different than the part of GURPS Powers quoted above.)

I feel like averaging them and dividing again by the number of options produces a fairer result.

Last edited by Donny Brook; 07-24-2022 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 07-25-2022, 12:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Multilpying the fraction as suggested in PU8 produces results that seemed too chintzy to me. In the case here, it gives a -1% Limitation. (Which obviously is sharply and inexplicably different than the part of GURPS Powers quoted above.)

I feel like averaging them and dividing again by the number of options produces a fairer result.
I agree, I liked your suggestion. Indeed -1% is no limitation.

Also, limitations Dance -40% and Song -40% (B66-67, Magery) would be:
  • both Dance and Song = -80%
  • either Dance or Song = -15% (16, rounded)

Averaging them and dividing again by the number of options would give -20% for "Dance or Song", and -5% for "gestures or words", sounds good.
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Old 07-25-2022, 12:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Power-Ups 8: Limitations, p. 6.
Thank you very much! (you all)
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

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Originally Posted by GURPZine View Post
Requires gestures or magic words is less limited than Requires gestures and Requires magic words alone. It makes no sense to have the same cost.
?
How much less limited is it? In one case the magician can be neutralized by being bound. In the other case the magician can be neutralized by being bound and gagged. If you can bind a magician, how much more difficult is it to add a gag? Note that it's difficult to gag someone and make it stick without also binding them.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 07-24-2022 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
How much less limited is it? In one case the magician can be neutralized by being bound. In the other case the magician can be neutralized by being bound and gagged. If you can bind a magician, how much more difficult is it to add a gag? Note that it's difficult to gag someone and make it stick without also binding them.
There are lots of other possible cases. Grappled, Afflicted with Mute, paralyzed, in a vacuum, ...
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Old 07-24-2022, 03:42 PM   #10
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Default Re: Limitations and Alternatives ("or")

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
There are lots of other possible cases. Grappled, Afflicted with Mute, paralyzed, in a vacuum, ...
If magicians can either speak spells or gesture them, why would anyone be afflicting them with muteness? What would that accomplish? If your kind of magic is so rare that people don't know how to disable it, that's an Unusual Origin.
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