Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2022, 07:23 PM   #21
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
Perhaps another good idea would be giving a bonus against unholy diseases (ghoul/zombie bites etc.?) when it's used as a wound wash?
I like that idea. If holy water is something that well-prepared delvers should carry, I like to provide multiple potential uses for it.
Dalin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2022, 06:39 AM   #22
jackcelso
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

final rest spell is almost end of the way spell for enemys and PCs!!!!

while dead you can be summomed to answer questions, put on a sour jar, infused in a golen body, resurect, bring back as a undead, posses a diferent body e etc...

final rest spell end all this possibilits and can be cast on any remains killed by you or not!!!

after a final rest spell only GM FIAT can bring someone back!!!
jackcelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2022, 10:56 AM   #23
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackcelso View Post
after a final rest spell only GM FIAT can bring someone back!!!
RAW (because GURPS Magic is badly edited), it's a permanent spell not an instantaneous spell, so you just cast dispel magic and then proceed with necromancy as usual.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2022, 12:56 PM   #24
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
RAW (because GURPS Magic is badly edited), it's a permanent spell not an instantaneous spell, so you just cast dispel magic and then proceed with necromancy as usual.
I guess that by "GM FIAT" he meant something like divine intervention - ie a ressurection (or undead) power with the "Cosmic" modifiee
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 11:15 AM   #25
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Thanks for the many answers. To comment on them en masse:


1) Why not just use acid: In the end, falls and other accidents sound like one of the biggest downsides of acid: there's a pretty good chance of vials breaking. Plus, holy water can have whatever miscellaneous beneficial uses the GM comes up with. (Along with emergency use as drinking water. Mmm, Dei-licious!)

Re the idea of using holy water in exorcisms, etc.: Definitely sensible. I recently came up with my own use for holy water & other "clerical consumables" as aids in "cleansing" tasks. Nothing fancy, or original: I just stole the idea from P. Dell'Orto's lovely Spell Components piece in Companion 3, treating consumables like holy water as a college component (replacing "college of spells" with "Turning, Exorcism, and other miscellaneous cleansing tasks"). I'll be tweeting the idea, and follow-ups to it, from tomorrow.


2) Splash vs armor: Thanks, all, for the reminder to reduce armor to 1/5 vs liquid grenades like acid or water. That makes some difference.

Even with that, though, there's a problem that a vial of acid or water isn't going to do any damage at all unless the target has DR 3+; otherwise, it breaks on the shield or falls to the ground to break, and Exploits 44 makes clear that "Corrosives and contact poisons must hit a person (not a shield or the ground) to work".

So against unarmored Dracula, it seems you really have to open the vial and splash him up close. Sounds easy enough to game – similar to a throw, but really short Range? I don't recall seeing any written rules for this sort of "splash a container of liquid" action, but I'll bet it's somewhere in the system...

Another thing about holy water as a weapon is this: Even if you manage to splash Drac with holy water or break a vial on him, 1d-3 dam isn't at all exciting. You'd probably do much better chucking rocks at him.

I'm thinking holy water dam vs vulnerable undead should be doubled (or made a neat 1d; close enough), just to make it interesting. Either that, or improvise more fun effects. ("A direct hit! The vampire claws at his face in pain, clearly stunned for a moment.")


3) Extreme resistance: I guess my question stems from the occasional rule that says "You can claim a bonus from A or B, but not both", and for some reason thinking that Higher Purpose + Resist Evil might be such a case. But as far as I can tell they stack just fine, and that's A-OK.

The results can be impressive. The undead hunter pre-gen in Companion 3 resists vampiric mental attacks, for example, with Will 15 + 3 for Higher Purpose + 3 for Resist Evil = 21!


4) @ confused: I see, it's the main character in the text interface of a roguelike game. Is this a specific game, though, or a common element in several games? Just curious.


5) Help me put this question to rest: I don't mind the idea that Final Rest has a huge fatigue cost. I'm guessing the intent is that the spell serve as the final, difficult task in the Big Quest to put away the ever-respawning Arch-Villain, Once And For All This Time. Sounds good to me.

Given that big cost, I was simply surprised to see the similar-ish Rest in Pieces as a cheap perk. But a close look shows significant differences, and, as far as I can tell, the 1-pt cost seems fine.


Thanks, all!
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com

Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated)

(Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 12:15 PM   #26
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
4) @ confused: I see, it's the main character in the text interface of a roguelike game. Is this a specific game, though, or a common element in several games? Just curious.
Roguelike games are a category, but use of @ for the character avatar was moderately common for text-based games that used a map.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 12:24 PM   #27
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Roguelike games are a category, but use of @ for the character avatar was moderately common for text-based games that used a map.
And for other ASCII art games. I'm pretty sure I recall that some of the clones of Star Trek that rebranded everything to avoid license issues used @ instead of E for your starship.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 12:34 PM   #28
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

I think a big reason for using @ is because it's easily distinguishable from other characters on a VT100.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 07:21 PM   #29
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Armor specifically protects normally vs. acid, it's the major exception. Which makes sense because you primarily want to use multiple acid grenades to degrade armor.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2022, 10:52 PM   #30
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Armor specifically protects normally vs. acid, it's the major exception.
You're right.

It's a grenade, and Exploits p44 has this general rule (bold is mine):

Quote:
Corrosives and contact poisons must hit a person (not a shield or the ground) to work. Read the description for effects, including whether any damage is one-shot or ongoing. Against physical damage, armor DR protects at only 1/5 value unless noted otherwise.
But Adventurers p114 provides the "noted otherwise":

Quote:
Ordinary acid inflicts 1d-3 corrosion damage; DR protects normally.
So: Corrosive liquids normally use DR/5, but acid is an exception that uses full DR. (I'll take heart in this confirmation that my past experiences applying DR normally vs acid were kosher play, not a case of forgetting to reduce DR.)

But again, it leaves us with the oddity that a vial of holy water won't even break on a foe unless the foe has DR 3+... but DR 3+ will completely protect against 1d-3 dam (and holy water won't corrode away the armor). So tossing vials of Divine Dasani seems pretty useless.

Perhaps it's best to say "yes, holy water burns undead like acid, but unlike acid vials uses DR/5 instead of full DR". Or just do away with the "DR protects normally" exception for acid and holy water alike. (1d-3 dam is pretty sad to begin with; let those liquids seep into armor!)
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner: http://www.gamesdiner.com

Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: here ⬅︎ Updated RSS link | This forum: Site updates thread (occasionally updated)

(Latest goods on site: GLAIVE Mini levels up to v2.4. Update to melee weapon design tool, with more example weapons and commentary.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.