Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-30-2017, 05:05 AM   #1
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Greetings, all!

A few times, I ran into disagreements on what is and isn't plausibly achievable by TL9 biotech in terms of reducing the need for sleep (including the existing write-ups). The elephant in the room is Modafinil, a cheap TL8 drug with effects that are in many ways superior to what TL9 can offer. Bringing it up sometimes turns the disagreement into that about the properties of the TL8 thing, especially the write-up of side-effects in the official text.

Now, the real-life statements about the real thing seem to be somewhat contradictory and second-hand. At this point, what I'm looking for is scientifically grounded opinions on the matter, as opposed to vague musings about the mysteriousness of the sleep process. That doesn't mean that non-pharmacists are unwelcome in this thread, but please do your best to back up arguments for either retaining or changing the text (as a houserule, since I haven't heard of Bio-Tech receiving a revised edition any time soon) with a scientific basis - either that of your own knowledge in the field, or of reliable and verifiable studies.

Thanks in advance!
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 10:08 AM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
. That doesn't mean that non-pharmacists are unwelcome in this thread, but please do your best to back up arguments for either retaining or changing the text (as a houserule, since I haven't heard of Bio-Tech receiving a revised edition any time soon) with a scientific basis - either that of your own knowledge in the field, or of reliable and verifiable studies.

Thanks in advance!
Not a pharmacist of course and you probably wouldn't somebody who dispenses stuff at the local store anyway. I'm afraid you might be looking for an actual pharmacological researcher and I remember no Gurpser with such credentials.

I did slog my way through the Wikipedia page last time this came up and I'm not sure Modafinil actually does as much as Bio-Tech claims. The story there was that it did no more than amphetamines or possibly even caffeine but perhaps had fewer side effects.

There were some vague and not well supported claims of its' benefits as an intelligence enhancer.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 12:51 PM   #3
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

That Wikipedia page is sparse as heck. It just seems that people are paranoid about risks that no one has proved even exist. Some are allergic, and a very few develop addiction just like literally every drug on earth. It's even less toxic per mg than theobromine in chocolate.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 12:56 PM   #4
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:33 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.
In which case it's most likely Resistant to the penalties from lost sleep, rather than actually reducing the need for sleep.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:35 PM   #6
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
In which case it's most likely Resistant to the penalties from lost sleep, rather than actually reducing the need for sleep.
How do you even apply Resistant to those? The primary effects of lost sleep are applied without a right to resist them.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:42 PM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
How do you even apply Resistant to those? The primary effects of lost sleep are applied without a right to resist them.
You can resist falling asleep, though the drowsy condition is applied regardless. It could also be a transient increase in fatigue (which would prevent needing to roll).
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:45 PM   #8
sir_pudding
Wielder of Smart Pants
 
sir_pudding's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

You don't feel tired (or especially wired either) so the penalties from drowsy aren't appropriate. I think the existing game mechanics are mostly adequate. If using Last Gasp, you might not allow recovery of long term fatigue without sleep.

It looks like most of the other studies of long-term use are for treatment of narcolepsy and related disorders and therefore include normal periods of sleep.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 10-30-2017 at 01:53 PM.
sir_pudding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:51 PM   #9
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You don't feel tired (or especially wired either) so the penalties from drowsy aren't appropriate.
Probably just cancel out N lost fatigue, then.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2017, 01:57 PM   #10
evileeyore
Banned
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Seeking pharmacist opinions about Modafinil stats on Bio-Tech page 152

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Not a pharmacological researcher but I have taken it. It works. There was an Air Force study that showed that long term fatigue is still a problem IIRC.
Did you use it to help with skipping sleep for prolonged periods* or just to enhance wakefulness during periods with radically reduced sleep?


* Exceeding more than one or two days.
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bio-tech, drugs, modafinil, realism, reality-testing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.