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Old 02-15-2024, 11:49 AM   #31
WholesomeMadScientist
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

GURPS High-Tech Weapons Table 4e pg. 8 has the GE M134 at ST 20 and the Molot NSV-12.7 at ST 19. Most of the comparable Gunner weapons in 4e Ultra-Tech fall in that range. So if Lifting ST is factored in such as the Tenshi’s Lifting ST +3…
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:39 PM   #32
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
So it's Spartans who have bought their ST up way over their racial average? Some genetically unmodified humans who's done enough of that could do the same thing.
I mean, +2 ST isn't a huge boost - it's pretty solid, don't get me wrong, but it's still within the "most normal humans" range in Characters (which is 8-12) - and is enough for four Gunner (Machine Gun) weapons in High Tech (although to be fair it's more like two - the Maxim Mk I is technically usable with only ST 12 so is arguably more like a heavy LMG that generally wasn't used as an LMG, and the M1919 is arguably just a modified M1917). +4 or +5 are more radical, but again are roughly equivalent to a human having ST 14 or ST 15. And, yeah, baseline humans could arguably get to the needed ST 17, 19, and 20 to repeat these feats, but then they're probably competing for "strongest human alive" (particularly those last two) rather than merely being "exceptionally strong Spartans."

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Also, pet peeve but Lifting ST is an Exotic Trait. Only in a Supers campaign (or its' virtual equivalent) could you buy up unlimited Lifting ST just because you wanted it.

The right Martial Art could let you buy Perk-level UBs for 1-3 pts of Lifting ST.
Someone with a training regimen specifically focusing on lifting heavy things could probably get access to those same Perks (which I assume are associated with grappling styles) and thus to a level or three of Lifting ST - and [4] is more readily achievable than [10]. Granted, the weirdness of how the Lifting skill works muddies the waters a bit, but at the very least I could buy a non-combat style that included Lifting (and probably stuff like Hiking or whatever Porters use) and gave access to those same Perks. Of course, even without being able to get further levels of Lifting ST, +5 ST is fairly readily achievable for a "strongman" type character.
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Old 02-15-2024, 01:53 PM   #33
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I


Someone with a training regimen specifically focusing on lifting heavy things could probably get access to those same Perks (which I assume are associated with grappling styles) ter.
There are multiple Styles in Technical Grappling that allow +3 Lift. I think there may be one somewhere else that does but I don't remember off-hand.

Mostly in MA it's +1 Lift or +1 Strike. It's also definitely +3 Arm ST. If the TG Styles are legal in the campaign the Lift plusses are probably cumulative (up to 3). The strike plusses should probably do the same. +2 or +3 is what PU2 says for the limits of most Perk enabled Traits

There's also a Perk that stacks up to maybe 2 for meeting Min ST levels.
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Old 02-15-2024, 02:31 PM   #34
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
There are multiple Styles in Technical Grappling that allow +3 Lift. I think there may be one somewhere else that does but I don't remember off-hand.

Mostly in MA it's +1 Lift or +1 Strike. It's also definitely +3 Arm ST. If the TG Styles are legal in the campaign the Lift plusses are probably cumulative (up to 3). The strike plusses should probably do the same. +2 or +3 is what PU2 says for the limits of most Perk enabled Traits

There's also a Perk that stacks up to maybe 2 for meeting Min ST levels.
On the topic of TG, Trained ST might be relevant - the idea someone with a lot of experience using firearms might functionally have higher ST for purposes of meeting a firearm's MinST may have some merit (Scott from Kentucky Ballistics probably qualifies, although he's already a pretty beefy guy). And yeah, +2 or +3 sounds about right - although with a racial average of Lifting ST 15, x1.5 for +3 or +4.5 (round down to +4) might be justifiable (arguably, this should be more like each Perk enabling +1.5 Lifting ST - so +1 for [1], +3 for [2] and +4 for [3]).

The Huge Weapons Perk I often think of as cinematic (I think it debuted in DF, but it may have shown up in LTC2 as well), but if not using Trained ST, I could see it being justified in a realistic setting, although it probably only works with skills that you have above a certain level.

But, yeah, there's a lot of ways in which a Spartan could qualify for using a crew-serviced weapon as a rifle, at least for those weapons on the lighter end of the spectrum (the GAU-8 is nearly as out of reach for them as it is for a baseline human).
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Old 02-15-2024, 02:52 PM   #35
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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(the GAU-8 is nearly as out of reach for them as it is for a baseline human).
The GAU-8 has a set of 7 10 foot long barrels. As a "rifle" we're talking.....maybe a humanoid 20 feet tall. Page 19 of Characters makes that SM+3.

If you browse Min STs you'll find "tank" class guns that could theoretically be fired by the right battlesuit/enhanced user combo even though the gun weighs 6x or more than what user plus suit weigh.

I find Min ST a stat of limited utility though I don't absolutely ignore it.
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