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Old 12-02-2021, 08:24 AM   #31
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
ITL limits rats to 2 per hex (not HTH).
Where is this rule? I don't recall seeing it. Are you thinking of the rule someone quoted from Deathtest?
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Old 12-02-2021, 08:32 AM   #32
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Where is this rule? I don't recall seeing it. Are you thinking of the rule someone quoted from Deathtest?
From ITL 100, end of first paragraph.
Quote:
Rats may stack at two per hex; they must still be attacked individually.
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:28 AM   #33
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
From ITL 100, end of first paragraph.
By only second printing or errata:


https://thefantasytrip.game/resources/errata/
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Old 12-02-2021, 09:42 AM   #34
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

Ah, thanks, Henry. I use the latest PDF of ITL available, so that explains why Lars couldn't find that text and I could.
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:13 AM   #35
Oneiros
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

So what are people’s thoughts on my earlier point: even though rats are required to enter the target’s hex to attack, they don’t seem to be considered to be in HTH. Otherwise, they’d get the +4 rear hex bonus, and then the GM couldn’t use the suggested 50/50 die roll for their attacks based on their Dex 10.

And if they’re not considered to be in HTH, can you use any readied weapon to attack them in your hex, or do you have to switch to a dagger/bare hands?
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Old 12-03-2021, 08:21 AM   #36
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
So what are people’s thoughts on my earlier point: even though rats are required to enter the target’s hex to attack, they don’t seem to be considered to be in HTH. Otherwise, they’d get the +4 rear hex bonus, and then the GM couldn’t use the suggested 50/50 die roll for their attacks based on their Dex 10.

And if they’re not considered to be in HTH, can you use any readied weapon to attack them in your hex, or do you have to switch to a dagger/bare hands?
I think your observation is strictly in line with RAW. You can use any readied weapon to attack a rat as well as one free stomp each turn.

In this respect, I don't treat the rat/human in-hex combat like the human/giant in-hex combat. A human may strike with a weapon as well as stomp the rat. The rat is not prone and does not get the +4 HTH bonus. In the giant example, I prefer to say the giant can stomp but not strike the human (I'm ambivalent on this, to be sure[1]), while the human definitely is prone and gets the +4 HTH bonus. Of course, the giant could choose to go HTH if he wished.

Henry is fond of a single set of rules that apply to all combats involving such disparate sizes[2] and there's some elegance to that approach, but I haven't been sold on it.

[1] Why not let the giant strike the human? Because the human is underfoot, I figger. He's not crawling up the giant's leg as a rat would. My choice here isn't about balance so much as whether I can imagine a giant swinging a club at a guy he's trampling.

Can I imagine a guy swinging a battle axe at a rat he's also trying to stomp? I try not to think about it.

[2] I hope I'm not misrepresenting his house rules here.
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Old 12-03-2021, 03:19 PM   #37
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by Oneiros View Post
So what are people’s thoughts on my earlier point: even though rats are required to enter the target’s hex to attack, they don’t seem to be considered to be in HTH. Otherwise, they’d get the +4 rear hex bonus, and then the GM couldn’t use the suggested 50/50 die roll for their attacks based on their Dex 10.
Ultimately it has to be agreed all the RAW for regular and HTH combat cannot apply in this situation. Clearly DX 10 is meant to be used, 14 cannot be applied, so let's just say that rats really have a DX of 6, for a net adjDX of 10 in HTH if you want to call it HTH.

That the rats must be in the same hex as the figure they are biting is so very clear there cannot be any argument on that point. While at the same time, there can be no 2 rat per hex limit on that number of rats because they are supposed to be able to do cumulative damage above 2 while also doing only 1 hit each -- that part can only work with more than 2 rats.

It's not regular combat and it's not HTH combat, it is its own special case. Use DX 10 and let all the rats you have swarm the victim's hex, because that's what the rules intend in this special case. Trying to explain why it works may lead to madness.
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Last edited by Steve Plambeck; 12-03-2021 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 12-03-2021, 06:00 PM   #38
amenditman
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

Are we talking about standard old rats, ~4" long plus tail?
Or are these big rats, something like 10" long plus tail (small cat size)?
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Old 12-03-2021, 06:21 PM   #39
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by amenditman View Post
Are we talking about standard old rats, ~4" long plus tail?
Or are these big rats, something like 10" long plus tail (small cat size)?
We're talking big enough to actually attack a party, at least on occasion.
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Old 12-03-2021, 07:00 PM   #40
amenditman
 
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Default Re: Less than one hex monster

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
We're talking big enough to actually attack a party, at least on occasion.
OK, but I have always assumed (yes I know, shouldn't) that the rules are referencing the swarm of small, normal rats that overwhelm the characters in the sewer in a horror flick.

There is no way they are limited to only two to a hex. I'd say maybe 40 to a hex.
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