Are Active Defenses Affected By Attack Speed?

[Wraithe]

Originally Posted by RyanW

I don't want to start a flamewar, but I really don't like that interpretation of dodge. There are just far too many cases where dodge seems (to me) to be a clear, discrete attempt to get away from the line of a perceived attack.

If a dodge is just moving erratically, a) how can you aiming while doing that, b) why does it spoil your aim if and only if an attack occurs, c) why is it so completely useless against attacks you are unaware of, and d) why is it impossible to move erratically when making an all-out attack?

I'm ok with the quoted interpretation, because I get the spirit in which it is intended. Dodge is the "twitch" out of the way of an attack, it's not movement over terrain, and you're not doing a standing weird "cha-cha" dance of defense while you're standing.

Basically I agree with both of you. :)

With that in mind, A) Because you're alert, ready to move, but taking Aim, B) Now you've been attacked and you move rather than be hit (you CAN choose not to dodge), C) Because you're unaware of it D) Because you're dedicating all your effort to attacking.

Dodge is an attempt not to be hit. The trick of this is semantic; Move = travelling vs. Move = shifting position. Dodge is the latter. Acrobatic Dodge could be either, Retreat + Dodge is the former, as is Dodge and Drop.

I think the key words from RAW are (BS374): "by weaving or ducking at the right moment." (emphasis mine)

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

No it not true, Most projectiles are UNDER child size so that -3 or worse right there. You want to be out of their reach still before they at again, that is 7 yards or better that another -3 or worse.. so their there you BEST case of average is going to -6 to active defenes, typially that going to be even worse! Worse when you assuming the weapon is actully going faster that covering that 7 yards in 1 second. Not GURPS rules normal does not incouter projectiles going slow enouh farn enough away that it takes longer than 1 second to reach the target

Which means you player will almost NEVER succeed in an active defence...

as for realism the odds of getting hit in GURPS use RAW actual closely match Police gun fire statistics. So anything make it the odds of dodging worse is almost by defition making it less realistic.

I wouldn't propose just using the bonuses / penalties on the table straight up. As I'd see the table apply to active defenses, modifiers due to size, speed, and / or range would be scaled upwards (in this case meaning towards the more positive, not "higher" in absolute value terms). We'd establish a baseline, based on what the average person (Basic Speed 5) should be able to Dodge, Parry, or Block attacks of a certain SM and speed without penalties, and call that his "speed modifier" for the purposes of subtracting from (lowering) the penalties due to size / speed / range of attacks directed at him. The modified value (for most low-tech attacks it would be a solid 0) would then be applied to the target's active defenses.

It should only really ever come up with high-tech weapons and other very fast projectiles. In essence, I'm suggesting that we compare the SM and speed of the target with the SM and speed (and range at which the target would have first noticed) of the attack, find the total modifier, and apply that to a target's active defenses. Actually, Dodge specifically shouldn't even get a bonus from target's Basic Speed because it's already based upon it, but their SM might affect it. I know that's not RAW, but do you see any problems with it? I'm considering trying it as a house rule. It's just always bugged me that these factors only mattered for the attack side of things and not the defense side.

[roguebfl]

Those modifier apply on perception, and perception is needed before you get an deference at all or at -4

Again ANY modifier on defece are BIG due the low scale on active defences and has a disportion effect on probably... a probably that as i pointed already matches ralilty the situation of the only place where you worried about, guns

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I know that's not RAW, but do you see any problems with it? I'm considering trying it as a house rule. It's just always bugged me that these factors only mattered for the attack side of things and not the defense side.

I'm seeing people not being able to dodge or parry reliably, even after shifting things down the table

I'm also seeing constant questions about what is the speed of a spear anyways? And is it faster if the guy wielding it is stronger? How much stronger does he have to be to give a speed penalty to defense?

How long is that sword, anyways? As a spear is a very thin "ropelike" weapon, do you use the cross-sectional Size (As you do a rope or bar) or the length? Does it change if they tip slash?

Bullet veolcity varies significantly so there's another place where people are going to stop play and demand specifics. You're looking at things roughly in the -12 to -14 band for speed btw, and they're all going to be in the -10 to -14 range for size. (-12 speed and -10 size are exceptionally slow and large)

So you're looking at a baseline -22 for evading exceptionally slow and large bullets, not counting range penalties. Something the size of an egg fired from an air-cannon, perhaps. So either you're adjusting the defense penalty up by about +15 (giving every other weapon a bonus to defend against) or players will never be able to defend against bullets, so why not just tell them "In this campaign you don't defend against bullets." It's much simpler?

Basically I forsee players suddenly developing an acute interest in a lot of very small detail and being quite willing to stop play to demand them from you, because they directly impact on their characters survival.