Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2023, 07:58 AM   #1
Densar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Orléans, ON, Canada
Default Learning combat

Hi,

I'm trying to (re)learn GURPS combat. I'm limiting myself to what is in the Basic Set for now, and would like to build a solid understanding of it. To start, I created for myself a cheat sheet, as well as an example using a simple character (based on one of the examples in 3rd edition, migrated to 4th edition).

I've uploaded both the cheat sheet and the combat example here.

I don't know if anyone has a bit of time and wouldn't mind helping me by reviewing these and pointing out the various mistakes that I made so that I can improve?

Although I suspect that the character(s) could have used better strategies, for now, I'm just trying to make sure I don't make mistakes in the way I do combat so I kept it very simple.

Thanks,
-D
Densar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 08:22 AM   #2
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Learning combat

When writing your own crib-sheets, it can be useful to have separate ones for melee and ranged combat. It makes them both simpler, at the expense of a little duplication.

Did you deliberately omit the +50% injury for cutting damage when A scores a hit in round 2? The same happens when A scores a hit in round 4.

The first rules mistake I've spotted in the combat example is in Round 4, where C rolls a 10 on her attack, at a -3 penalty, and is claimed to miss. Since she has skill 16, and thus effective skill 13 with the penalty, she should have hit on that roll.

The first tactical mistake is by A in round 4: all-out attacking when you have no armour, against an opponent with no shock penalty, is a bad idea.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 08:51 AM   #3
Densar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Orléans, ON, Canada
Default Re: Learning combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
When writing your own crib-sheets, it can be useful to have separate ones for melee and ranged combat. It makes them both simpler, at the expense of a little duplication.
Yes, I've not really tackled ranged combat yet, but that makes a lot of sense. There are quite a lot of other options too in combat (like moving and hiding and vehicles and such). I'll probably tackle using things like rapier/swords next and movement/distance, and then ranged combat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Did you deliberately omit the +50% injury for cutting damage when A scores a hit in round 2? The same happens when A scores a hit in round 4.
I completely forgot about this. I'll have to find the reference and add to my cheat sheet so I don't forget in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
The first rules mistake I've spotted in the combat example is in Round 4, where C rolls a 10 on her attack, at a -3 penalty, and is claimed to miss. Since she has skill 16, and thus effective skill 13 with the penalty, she should have hit on that roll.
You are right. For some reason, in my mind, she had a skill of 12. I'll correct this and maybe just fudge a higher dice roll so as not to change too much of the rest of the example (although I'll have to make sure it is also not a critical miss/failure when I do that.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
The first tactical mistake is by A in round 4: all-out attacking when you have no armour, against an opponent with no shock penalty, is a bad idea.
Yes. I figured that she was getting a little desperate. I also wondered if doing all-out defense whenever she had shock would have been a better approach? Her dodge and parry were decent enough to help prevent more shock and then her attacks would have more change of succeeding the next turn...

Thanks so much for the feedback!
Densar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 09:28 AM   #4
Densar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Orléans, ON, Canada
Default Re: Learning combat

Also, in this case, probably better to try to do impaling damage rather than cut damage with a knife since that is a x2 multiplier instead of 1.5... Anyway, they wanted to slash and cut rather than thrust and impale. Their prerogative, of course :-)
Densar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 09:35 AM   #5
Densar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Orléans, ON, Canada
Default Re: Learning combat

When doing an all-out attack with a knife, using the option to do double attacks, is it ok to first do a swing (cut) and them a thrust (imp) for the second? I would think so since they don't specify otherwise in the book. Seems very cinematic to do that, particularly when the last attack takes care of the opponent...
Densar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 09:55 AM   #6
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Learning combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Densar View Post
I completely forgot about this. I'll have to find the reference and add to my cheat sheet so I don't forget in the future.
Page B379, but reading "Damage and Injury", pp. 377-381 will make things clearer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Densar View Post
Yes. I figured that she was getting a little desperate. I also wondered if doing all-out defense whenever she had shock would have been a better approach?
It is, under most circumstances. You're probably starting to notice that GURPS combat is quite deadly: a couple of knife hits have C significantly wounded. Two things to appreciate:

It's much easier to get someone to collapse unconscious than it is to kill them. They start having to make HT rolls every second to stay conscious when they reach 0 HP; they don't have to roll to avoid dying until they reach -1xHP, and they don't automatically die until they reach -5xHP.

The best way to do combat for realistic GURPS characters involves sneaking up on opponents, ambushing them, and otherwise getting unfair advantages. Wading into fights, D&D style, will get you into trouble unless you're highly skilled, well-equipped and have a fair grasp of the appropriate tactics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Densar View Post
When doing an all-out attack with a knife, using the option to do double attacks, is it ok to first do a swing (cut) and them a thrust (imp) for the second? I would think so since they don't specify otherwise in the book. Seems very cinematic to do that, particularly when the last attack takes care of the opponent...
The rules don't forbid it. The GM certainly can. While GURPS combat is less abstract than most TTRPGs, that kind of detail depends on the group and the game style.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 11:36 AM   #7
Densar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Orléans, ON, Canada
Default Re: Learning combat

Thanks. Another question: when she did all-out attack (double), can her foe defend against both attack (in effect doing two defenses on her turn) or only the first one?
Densar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 11:53 AM   #8
Mr_Sandman
 
Mr_Sandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
Default Re: Learning combat

Any character who can defend (if they didn't all out attack, for example), can defend against as many attacks as are made on them. Using the Basic Set rules. They are limited to one block, and each parry after the first is penalized. Dodges are unlimited.
Mr_Sandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 12:03 PM   #9
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Learning combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Densar View Post
When doing an all-out attack with a knife, using the option to do double attacks, is it ok to first do a swing (cut) and them a thrust (imp) for the second? I would think so since they don't specify otherwise in the book. Seems very cinematic to do that, particularly when the last attack takes care of the opponent...
It's explicitly allowed for a Rapid Strike (see "What is a rapid strike?", Martial Arts p 127). The expanded text for All-Out Attack implies that performing a thrust to a cut is allowed, and I can't see why the reverse would not be allowed.

It doesn't even sound cinematic to me. The fighter slashed with the knife until he met resistance, then stabbed forward.

Each attack interacts with DR and wounding modifiers separately, of course.
__________________
Read my GURPS blog: http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com
mlangsdorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2023, 12:03 PM   #10
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Learning combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Densar View Post
Thanks. Another question: when she did all-out attack (double), can her foe defend against both attack (in effect doing two defenses on her turn) or only the first one?
C can and should defend against the two attacks separately. She can take any number of Dodges, a single Parry (under Basic combat), and zero Blocks, because she doesn't have any kind of shield.

Because these example characters have no encumbrance and are at -1 to parry with their knives, their dodges are as good as their parries; armoured fighters with larger weapons and shields tend to have Parry and Block rolls better than their Dodge. With more combat options active, it is possible to do multiple Parries, at increasing penalties, and given a shield, multiple Blocks, also at increasing penalties.

Fighting multiple opponents is dangerous, because you run out of good active defence options.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
combat, examples, gurps

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.