Children of the (Historical Folks & Action Specialist) lenses

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Infornific

I'll double check, but I think Noble Consort has Weaving as an optional skill.

Only if you count "Artist(Weaving)". Which maybe we should.

Almost. It was in the Historical Folks 3e supplement which was an abandoned project the author put on the web.

Is it still on the web? do you have an easy link? (I specified easy, don't go searching heaven and earth)

I've changed it to that for now. Makes Bureaucrat a little more flexible. I go back and forth between quick, streamlined skill sets and sets with more choices that are more generic.

I think you want a happy medium. And some concepts lend themselves more to that than others. Thanks for working with me on the Bureaucrat.



I really like the advantage choices on Diver!

What specializations are appropriate for armory on the diver? I'm not sure what its for.

Diviner has the empath vs. Sensative conflict, I just removed empath.

I spotted a new specialty: "Symbol Drawing (Rune-Lore)"!

should the diviner have Astronomy as a secondary rather than astrology (which is a specialty of forune telling?)

On the Fuedal nobleman's melee skills I just looked for the tag Melee Combat, and then ignored science fiction or unarmed categories. Some of them only fit rennisance, but I think the template is actually pretty representative background for a swashbuckling young nobleman (who is using all that rank and wealth and status to cover for their over-the top behavior).

Is the Teamster on the Fire Fighter ever not equines?

On Fisherman, you have Deep Sleeper listed as being worth 5 points rather than 1

Fisherman offers immunity to disease ... I think that's a mistake. Maybe it should be resistant at +3 and +8?

Fisherman lists Navigation (any)... I'm pretty sure that it should be for (sea) only.


I've finished F!

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Is it still on the web? do you have an easy link? (I specified easy, don't go searching heaven and earth)

PKitty has it on MyGURPS. Here for 3e and here for the 4e conversion. The original 3e site seems to be no more. You can find the archived page here.

For what it's worth, the original author appears to be working in Hollywood. The one in Maryland - if I've got the right person he's an assistant professor of anthropology at St Mary's College of Maryland.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Only if you count "Artist(Weaving)". Which maybe we should.

I added that to the skill set as an optional skill. Kind of surprised it wasn't already included.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I really like the advantage choices on Diver!

What specializations are appropriate for armory on the diver? I'm not sure what its for.

Armory (Melee Weapons.) It's a carryover from the original Historical Folks. I'd assume it's for making things like spears. Come to think of it, it might make sense to allow further specialization for specific weapons.

(Side note: does anyone know why GURPS uses the English spelling or Armory?)

Originally Posted by ericthered

Diviner has the empath vs. Sensative conflict, I just removed empath.

I'll do the same.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I spotted a new specialty: "Symbol Drawing (Rune-Lore)"!

It's a carryover from the original. In 4e Symbol Drawing requires specialization in a given magic tradition. However there's not really a sample list as for Artist or Armory. Possibly it should just be Symbol Drawing (any).

Originally Posted by ericthered

should the diviner have Astronomy as a secondary rather than astrology (which is a specialty of forune telling?)

Another carryover from 3e. It should be Astronomy. Also, Fortune Telling has a required specialty so it should be Fortune telling (any). Choice of optional skills should reflect the specific Fortune Telling. E.g., take Astronomy if you have Fortune Telling (Astrology).

Originally Posted by ericthered

On the Fuedal nobleman's melee skills I just looked for the tag Melee Combat, and then ignored science fiction or unarmed categories. Some of them only fit rennisance, but I think the template is actually pretty representative background for a swashbuckling young nobleman (who is using all that rank and wealth and status to cover for their over-the top behavior).

I figured Melee Weapon skills would be very culture dependent so I kept it vague. First skill set over 50 points because of the mandatory social Advantages.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Is the Teamster on the Fire Fighter ever not equines?

Real world, probably not. But in a fantasy or pseudo-fantasy world there might be other options.

Originally Posted by ericthered

On Fisherman, you have Deep Sleeper listed as being worth 5 points rather than 1

You're right. Carryover again. I fixed it in the document.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Fisherman offers immunity to disease ... I think that's a mistake. Maybe it should be resistant at +3 and +8?

You're right - I changed it to Resistant to Disease +3 or +8 [3 or 5].

Originally Posted by ericthered

Fisherman lists Navigation (any)... I'm pretty sure that it should be for (sea) only.

I'm pretty sure you're right. I've changed it to Navigation (Sea).

Originally Posted by ericthered

I've finished F!

[Infornific]

Slight change - I added Animal Empathy [5] to optional Advantages for Charioteer.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Started in 3e and was carried over. The logic is that astronomy is used to tell the time and thus set a clock.

Note that this template was created to represent a very early, pioneering clockmaker, who had to be knowledgeable in the contemporary science of time as well as being a mechanical engineer. A few generations on, that requirement could be dropped.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Note that this template was created to represent a very early, pioneering clockmaker, who had to be knowledgeable in the contemporary science of time as well as being a mechanical engineer. A few generations on, that requirement could be dropped.

Thanks for the input. I had forgotten you created the original template.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Infornific

PKitty has it on MyGURPS. Here for 3e and here for the 4e conversion. The original 3e site seems to be no more. You can find the archived page here.

For what it's worth, the original author appears to be working in Hollywood. The one in Maryland - if I've got the right person he's an assistant professor of anthropology at St Mary's College of Maryland.

Thanks! That's very helpful.

Originally Posted by Infornific

I added that to the skill set as an optional skill. Kind of surprised it wasn't already included.

awesome.

Armory (Melee Weapons.) It's a carryover from the original Historical Folks. I'd assume it's for making things like spears. Come to think of it, it might make sense to allow further specialization for specific weapons.

Armory is so broad, even with its categories. Not that that's a bad thing.

I'll do the same.

acknowledged, thanks.

It's a carryover from the original. In 4e Symbol Drawing requires specialization in a given magic tradition. However there's not really a sample list as for Artist or Armory. Possibly it should just be Symbol Drawing (any).

I'm going to change it to any. Or rather, the GCS's "stick specialization here" syntax.

Another carryover from 3e. It should be Astronomy. Also, Fortune Telling has a required specialty so it should be Fortune telling (any). Choice of optional skills should reflect the specific Fortune Telling. E.g., take Astronomy if you have Fortune Telling (Astrology).

Awesome, I've adjusted as well.

I figured Melee Weapon skills would be very culture dependent so I kept it vague. First skill set over 50 points because of the mandatory social Advantages.

And the second is close behind!


The digital format is a little more forgiving of a giant list, I hope. At least you can collapse it.

Real world, probably not. But in a fantasy or pseudo-fantasy world there might be other options.

ok, I'll keep it.

You're right. Carryover again. I fixed it in the document.

acknowledged.

You're right - I changed it to Resistant to Disease +3 or +8 [3 or 5].

That matches me now.

I'm pretty sure you're right. I've changed it to Navigation (Sea).

And a question about the hunter package now has me wondering if a fisherman might have navigation (land) if he works a swamp, river, or even a lake.

Originally Posted by Infornific

Slight change - I added Animal Empathy [5] to optional Advantages for Charioteer.

That's a cool addition. I've added it as well.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Note that this template was created to represent a very early, pioneering clockmaker, who had to be knowledgeable in the contemporary science of time as well as being a mechanical engineer. A few generations on, that requirement could be dropped.

Can we get an updated and more flexible template? "Clockmaker" might end up getting used for people working more general clockwork mechanisms.

[ericthered]

Why is guild rank only [2]? I'm sure there is a reason, but it'd be nice to include the reference in GCS.

The Herald has Current Affairs (Games). GCS doesn't have that, but it does have Current Affairs (Sports). Is there a reason we're choosing one over the other?

Had to to another giant list of skills for the Herder's combat skills. I didn't include unarmed skills or shields, but some rather exotic ones were actually appropriate (bolas, anyone?)

The Hunter only has two points in survival. Given that most rule sets base finding prey on rolling vs. Survival, does this seem a bit low?

for hunter, "throwing weapon (spear)" should be "thrown weapon (spear)". Also, should navigation (Land or Water) be navigation (Land or Sea)? I'm somewhat curious if you'd actually use navigation (Sea) for use on a big lake. Boating down a river seems like it would use navigation (land).



I've finished H!

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Thanks! That's very helpful.






Can we get an updated and more flexible template? "Clockmaker" might end up getting used for people working more general clockwork mechanisms.

I could move Astronomy and Mathematics (Applied) to optional skills, with a note that you would need to take both. Clockmaker is tricky precisely because it's at the high end of Low Tech,

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The Herald has Current Affairs (Games). GCS doesn't have that, but it does have Current Affairs (Sports). Is there a reason we're choosing one over the other?

I'd leave off the required specializations for the herald's CA skill. When I originally designed the template for Historical Folks, I had to glom at three distinct historical herald variants into one template.

The earliest known heralds were jongleurs - itinerant actors, musicians, performers, etc. who were probably relatively low-status and more focused on showmanship to make their patron look good before and during sport combat contests (not exactly jousts, but grand melees which differed from actual combat in only minor respects).

Once the profession got a bit of respectability by association with the nobility, heralds turned into tournament organizers, messengers, graves registration personnel and diplomats, depending in location and era. That's where the original Tournament Law skill came from (now Games (Jousting, etc. rules)).

A Jongleur-type 13th c. herald might have CA (Current Affairs or Regional). A snootier 14th or 15th c. herald (e.g., the type depicted in Shakespeare's Henry V) might have CA (High Society or Political). Any herald might have CA (Tournaments) which might cover knowledge of upcoming tourneys and the people currently involved with the tourneying circuit.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Had to to another giant list of skills for the Herder's combat skills. I didn't include unarmed skills or shields, but some rather exotic ones were actually appropriate (bolas, anyone?)

Wrestling isn't unreasonable for herders who have to get up close and personal with fractious livestock. Other than that, they go for capture weapons to keep their own animals in line and light, simple weapons with minimal ammunition requirements to defend their herds.

Bolas, Lasso, Polearm and Staff cover various capture weapons (with Polearms representing capture nooses and shepherd's crooks which can be used to harmlessly Hook fleeing animals and Staff representing various poles used to separate herd animals or limit their movement).

Sling, Spear Thrower, Throwing and Thrown Weapon (Spear or Throwing Stick) are used to convince local predators that beef/lamb/whatever is definitely off the menu.

Originally Posted by ericthered

The Hunter only has two points in survival. Given that most rule sets base finding prey on rolling vs. Survival, does this seem a bit low?

For a 25-point template, no. Most hunters would just go out into the wild from their villages for a few days or so. Tracking skill might be used to track game that needs to be found, but no skill (or possibly Naturalist skill) is needed to get yourself to an area where there are a lot of wild animals present.

For much of human history, wildlife was far more abundant than it is today (due to lower human population densities and greatly reduced human impact on the natural environment), so most market hunters didn't have to go far to find game.

For example, 19th century U.S. market hunters would just go into the wetlands near the big U.S. East Coast cities during the spring and autumn migrations and blast away at the huge flocks of migrating waterfowl. No skill was needed as long as you could put decoys in the water and rig up a blind over your boat. With a punt gun loaded with pounds of birdshot and a willingness to blast birds swimming in the water no Guns skill is needed either.

Professional hunters who went on hunting expeditions that lasted weeks or even years might have more serious Survival skills, but only if they didn't have a ship or formal hunting camp to operate from. Two examples are the late 18th and early 19th century "long hunters" who hunted deer along the western frontiers of the United States and the late 19th century "buffalo skinners" who extirpated the American Bison in the 1970s.

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'm somewhat curious if you'd actually use navigation (Sea) for use on a big lake.

Yes. Seamen operating "lakers" on the Great Lakes use the same navigation techniques as are used by ocean-going ships. Navigating a river could use either Navigation (Land) or (Sea) depending the tools at hand. (E.g., a ship navigating the St. Lawrence Seaway from Lake Ontario to the Gulf of St. Lawrence doesn't switch the tools it uses during the transit.)

While it's only been mentioned in passing in various GURPS supplements, the skill of navigating a ship along a river or through a similarly treacherous body of water using just visual cues is Area Knowledge (Harbor/Rivers). It is is possessed by harbor and riverboat pilots in addition to Navigation (Sea).