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 04-11-2024, 01:03 PM #1 SRoach   Join Date: Oct 2015 Odd question: Move Terrain and permanent Sunlight, (or any other area enchantment). Hawthorne Magic Question. Hypothetically. Let's assume you enchant an area with a permanent "Continual Sunlight". Let's assume the enchanted area is, oh, for math's sake, 120 feet across. Let's assume you, or someone else, then use "Move Terrain" on a different area, say one that is 90 feet across, and plop it into the middle of the Continual Sunlight enchantment. "Move Terrain" says it displaces whatever is there, but I'm not sure it's supposed to apply to area magic. Would:A. You end up with a ring of permanent sunlight that was 15 feet thick, around the relocated terrain, that was itself not in permanent sunlight? (This is the moved terrain blotted out a 90 foot wide circle of the area, but left a 15-foot thick ring alone.)B. You end up with a ring of permanent sunlight that was ~30 feet thick, around the relocated terrain? (Area of a 120' circle, expressed as a ring, with an inside diameter of 90'.)C. End up with the whole area illuminated, with a 15 area of the original sunbeam that wasn't now home to the 90' wide moved terrain?D. Have a 90' circle of relocated terrain butted up against a 120' circle of permanent sunbeam, sticking together as a circle and being displaced as a unit?E. Have a 90' circle of relocated terrain, partially illuminated by a 120' circle of permanent sunbeam, as the center of the sunbeam was pushed to the edge, but overlapped into the newly relocated terrain?F. Break the original enchantment, resulting in no area being enchanted, as the newly moved terrain overlapped the center of the original enchantment?F. Something completely different? Last edited by SRoach; 04-11-2024 at 01:06 PM.
 04-11-2024, 02:11 PM #2 Dalin   Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Saint Paul, MN Re: Odd question: Move Terrain and permanent Sunlight, (or any other area enchantment I don't know if RAW has anything to say about this, but my first reaction is to go with option C with the whole area illuminated. In this case, I'd go with the fluff flavor that the illumination is coming from above (a star or the clouds) so it would remain in place, especially because the new terrain fits within the area of illumination. If the incoming area was larger than the spell area, I might have it supersede the spell (unsure about that). Similarly, if a wizard casts move terrain on a portion of the illuminated area, I would not have the illumination move with it. If they moved the entire area, I would have the spell travel with them. I wouldn't begrudge a GM who ruled differently. This is where magic gets wild and woolly!
 04-11-2024, 03:00 PM #3 Anaraxes   Join Date: Sep 2007 Re: Odd question: Move Terrain and permanent Sunlight, (or any other area enchantment I'd lean toward assuming a magical metaphysic that the Continual Sunlight spell is attached to a location, rather than the contents of that location. That is, the spell's area is a place in space. (It's magic; we don't have to worry about planets rotating or revolving around their sun, or any of that sort of thing. If extra math floats your boat, feel free to have "a place" mean the complicated path of a continually moving point that conveniently maintains a fixed relationship to the continually moving place it was cast.) So, the new terrain is sunlit, if it's inside that original area. Terrain moved out is no longer lit. The area of the Continual Sunlight is independent on what happens to be inside that area; the light is just created in that area and falls on whatever it falls on. An alternative metaphysic would be to assume that the ground in that area is temporarily enchanted so that sunlight falls on it. This would be the interpretation that leads to rulings that the sunlight follows the original dirt, or that you wind up with holes in the lit area where the original terrain used to be. I've no argument with people that want to the spell to work that way. But one caution is that the same questions about moving the lit terrain would apply to every other object in that area. If a human in the area gets sunlit, and walks outside the area, do they have their own individual sunbeam following them around, while leaving a hole behind? Does the ground and the human standing on it each get their own sunbeam? Etc. I think this interpretation, where the light is attached to the thing it was illuminating when the spell was cast, is going to get more complicated. I'd rather keep it simple.
04-12-2024, 10:06 PM   #4
RyanW

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Re: Odd question: Move Terrain and permanent Sunlight, (or any other area enchantment

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Anaraxes I'd lean toward assuming a magical metaphysic that the Continual Sunlight spell is attached to a location, rather than the contents of that location. That is, the spell's area is a place in space. (It's magic; we don't have to worry about planets rotating or revolving around their sun, or any of that sort of thing. If extra math floats your boat, feel free to have "a place" mean the complicated path of a continually moving point that conveniently maintains a fixed relationship to the continually moving place it was cast.) So, the new terrain is sunlit, if it's inside that original area. Terrain moved out is no longer lit. The area of the Continual Sunlight is independent on what happens to be inside that area; the light is just created in that area and falls on whatever it falls on.
That would be my interpretation. Otherwise you might get odd things like carrying around a shovelful of sunlit dirt for illumination.

Though it does have some weird things to think about when you realize just what permanent really means. What effect do plate tectonics have on area effect spells? Does the spell remain a circle centered on a spot that drifts with the tectonic plate it is on, or the one the caster was on when cast? Or does the area distort as the land under it shift (i.e. given enough time, could you cast a three hex wide spell that winds up split into two chunks on opposite sides of a rift valley, or an ocean)?
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 Tags enchantment, hawthorne, magic question, move terrain, sunlight

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