Is it too easy to cast powerful spells with RPM?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

The easiest solution is probably to limit the maximum skill levels via GM veto - "no, you can't have any Path skills over 19, and you can't have more than 150 total skill across all your Paths" or whatever suits you best.

Something this made me think of that might help would be that a Grimoire, rather than just giving a static bonus, gives its normal bonus up to a certain final skill level, then is reduced beyond that. Perhaps a typical Grimoire gives its full bonus up to skill 15, half bonus up to skill 20, quarter bonus up to skill 25, and so forth. So, if a character with skill 13 grabs a +4 Grimoire, that's good for +2 to get to skill 15, but then the remaining bonus (+2) gets cut in half (to +1), for an end result of skill 16. For our skill 20 character, that +4 Grimoire has its bonus reduced to +1, for only skill 21 (total 24 with Grimoire+Ritual Mastery+workspace). The idea here would be that, the better you are, the less useful a guide is. More expensive Grimoires that don't suffer any reduction until skill 20 might be available - and they probably require some minimum level of skill to actually make use of, as they contain markedly more advanced information.

[mlangsdorf]

That's a more complicated solution, but it does make a lot of sense. Introductory guides aren't much use to the master, and books that challenge the master are inscrutable to the novice.

My solution is simpler, but I'd probably also use your solution if I ever ran another game with RPM.

[naloth]

I would a Threshold system instead of making lots of gathering attempts. Threshold works by adding any energy that you would have accumulated instead adds to a "energy used" running total. If your running total at any time exceeds an arbitrary limit then you make a check (at +1/5 pts over your threshold) on a "what happens now" table. For the latest attempt at MtA, I'm using the Fear check table for consequences.

[Christopher R. Rice]

RPM requires GM input. If you allow any effect for any reason then yup. It's gonna break the game. That said, I have a few posts on my blog that might help:

• A GM’s Guide to Ritual Path Magic Spell Creation
• Boil and Bubble: Beginner’s Ritual Path Magic
• Boil and Bubble: Practical (Ritual Path) Magic
• Boil and Bubble: Tips and Tricks for Ritual Path Magic

[Shostak]

Don't forget to impose situational modifiers that make things harder. The stress rules from Pyramid 3/103 are a good addition to the standard environmental penalties. You also can require familiarity with a given ritual to avoid a penalty

[ajardoor]

Keep in mind that the original RPM fellas in Monster Hunters 1 are 400-points heroes. I think that skewered assumptions about how game-breaking the system is.

At the 200-point level, RPM is less "broken", their Path skills are base ~15 at highest. To pull off the story breakers then, you need to pile on the skill bonuses and/or extra energy sources. That requires more time, effort, resources and prep work.

Buying grimoires and using them is not a "gimme". They're expensive, restricted, and prime targets for thieves. Using them doubles casting time.
Hallows of Tass or artefacts with mana reserves or pawns of vis to be tapped are not free, they aren't just out in the open, other people want them too.
Specialisation and spending character points for that means earning them or not buying other stuff at character creation.
Places of power have got obvious issues.

Also, other (smart, powerful, combat-ready) people will probably be ready to oppose your world-wrecking spell, if it is indeed world-breaking.

In theory, being an assassin is easy - just walk up to the president and shoot him with a gun (a very common object), so simple! In actual practical reality, it's way more complex than that.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by ajardoor

Keep in mind that the original RPM fellas in Monster Hunters 1 are 400-points heroes. I think that skewered assumptions about how game-breaking the system is.

At the 200-point level, RPM is less "broken", their Path skills are base ~15 at highest. To pull off the story breakers then, you need to pile on the skill bonuses and/or extra energy sources. That requires more time, effort, resources and prep work.

In that higher skill levels were more acceptable? Yes. In that the system only works for high powered games? No. I am running a short campaign right now with a character who has 75 points and is a RPM mage - which he DIDN'T start out with. RPM is the most hackable system in GURPS right now. You can nerf it so that it doesn't make huge impacts and you can buff it so everyone is basically a tactical nuke. But saying something is untenable at low-power (which is what I got from your post) because it started in a high-powered game is a bit ... disingenuous.

[ajardoor]

I didn't mean low power makes RPM untenable, I meant that low power stops RPM from being world shaking ("too powerful"). A low power RPM Mage is perfectly playable, they just won't be capable of world shaking stunts. The 400-point Monster Hunters is meant to shake the world, at least a little, because they are playing in a hugely cinematic campaign frame, in context. ("Broken" if viewed out of context.)

Playing 400-point or less points is both fine, RPM is okay for both campaign frames.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by ajardoor

I didn't mean low power makes RPM untenable, I meant that low power stops RPM from being world shaking ("too powerful"). A low power RPM Mage is perfectly playable, they just won't be capable of world shaking stunts. The 400-point Monster Hunters is meant to shake the world, at least a little, because they are playing in a hugely cinematic campaign frame, in context. ("Broken" if viewed out of context.)

Playing 400-point or less points is both fine, RPM is okay for both campaign frames.

One of the worst spells I ever allowed was cast by a 150 point RPMist. Power doesn't scale well with skill. It scales with the bonuses you allow and since that's under GM purview that is controllable. But that's all magic for the most part.

[ajardoor]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

One of the worst spells I ever allowed was cast by a 150 point RPMist. Power doesn't scale well with skill. It scales with the bonuses you allow and since that's under GM purview that is controllable. But that's all magic for the most part.

Aye.
It's important for the GM to point out the issues surrounding RPM tools - availability, costs, other actors' interference, etc.

What was the spell? Starting a neighbourhood-wide fire? Creating a disease? Disabling the security measures on a nuclear warhead?