How to protect merchant from mind control?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

It's worth remembering that even though theft is outlawed in every civilized society (at least that I know of), stores still employ their own countermeasures against thieves and robbers. Some of these countermeasures are more effective than others, but even if it's just metal bars securing the windows they still don't rely purely on the law and law enforcement.

Agreed, which is why I said these things, too:

I didn't claim a pure reliance on law enforcement. But in the absence of law enforcement, personal countermeasures are kind of pointless because they just leave you in a "Okay, make me stop!" situation. If you're positing a civilization rather than an anarchy, you presumably don't want all merchants being judge, jury, and executioner.

[ericthered]

Note that beyond mind control being dark and illegal, using mind control to get a good deal is somewhere between fraud and theft anyways.

[DemiBenson]

As others have pointed out, laws and customs will be the biggest deterrent, followed by the possibility of citizens forming mobs to get “justice” on mages/bards who misuse or abuse mind-magic in civilized lands.

If your bard goes around charming merchants to get a discount, the merchants will eventually figure it out and warn all their follows and warn the watch (who then get bonuses to recognize the bard). If the merchants know who the bard is, they’ll just ban him. If the bard continues, the merchants might band together and hire some thugs to get their money back.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Note that beyond mind control being dark and illegal, using mind control to get a good deal is somewhere between fraud and theft anyways.

The way I see it:

"I swipe the gewgaw.": Theft.
"I use my wits to scam the gewgaw off someone.": Fraud.
"I beat someone up and take the gewgaw.": Assault + theft.
"I use magic to levitate, teleport, or otherwise swipe the gewgaw.": Theft, aggravated by magic use.
"I use magic to persuade someone to give me the gewgaw.": Fraud, aggravated by magic-use + assault, aggravated by magic use.

Some people seem to see it this way:

"I use magic to persuade someone to give me the gewgaw.": Fraud, aggravated by magic-use.

I disagree. I think that use of magic on a person would always add a kind of aggravated assault on top of whatever crime you were up to at the time. And obviously, I feel that using magic always means aggravated crime.

[Stormcrow]

Spoilers for Babylon 5!

I am reminded of the Psi-Corps of Babylon 5. There the issue was privacy, not control, but the laws enacted by humans to control telepaths eventually led to the telepaths trying to take over. In the end, the Psi-Corps was abolished, but they never really addressed in any detail how privacy would be protected after that.

[Anthony]

I'm inclined to call targeted spells assault, though there's edge cases like Presence and using Alter Voice to improve reactions (oddly, there doesn't seem to be a body control spell that gives Appearance; using Steal Beauty is assault on the person you stole it from but not on the merchant).

[Kalzazz]

If your a loaded merchant moly amulets become affordable

[khorboth]

There is one other method if it's not too late. You could just... not allow it.

You could tell your player that this kind of power is not in keeping with the theme of the game. Much like the ability create (gold) or someone with phobia (coins).

Or you could tell them that these powers are exceedingly rare in FR and you don't want the PCs to have access. Just like you're not allowing Drow or Djinn PCs.

[Anthony]

It's not like D&D doesn't have Charm Person and Suggestion; other than simply ignoring the problem, the main protection is that merchants who actually have things the PCs might want also have dangerous people available to discourage bad behavior.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by DemiBenson

As others have pointed out, laws and customs will be the biggest deterrent, followed by the possibility of citizens forming mobs to get “justice” on mages/bards who misuse or abuse mind-magic in civilized lands.

If your bard goes around charming merchants to get a discount, the merchants will eventually figure it out and warn all their follows and warn the watch (who then get bonuses to recognize the bard). If the merchants know who the bard is, they’ll just ban him. If the bard continues, the merchants might band together and hire some thugs to get their money back.

The Bard may be a little different - he may well be a character with high but mundane social skills who is just really good at negotiating - presumably part of his shtick is that he is just really persuasive, but that shouldn't extend beyond a really good discount or atypical credit. Give an NPC who has already been smooth talked by him a bonus to resist.

Of course, if the Bard is an actual con artist, then things differ again...

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's not like D&D doesn't have Charm Person and Suggestion; other than simply ignoring the problem, the main protection is that merchants who actually have things the PCs might want also have dangerous people available to discourage bad behavior.

I think the issue appears to be that D&D also has magic missile and fireball and the game world needs to allow for there to be repercussions for PCs who use any of these spells to rob NPCs. But there we seem to be in essential agreeement...