[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Possibly a deep sense of gratitude (Sense of Duty) to the one who cured them could also work. Though, there is some room for abuse there as well, and its value would only offset a portion of the cost.

That would definitely be abusive,

Some of the issue is that it is one hour of therapy. If the time required scaled according to the value of the Disadvantage being removed, that could be another solution. Just use the rules for learnable Advantages, and apply them to removing the Disadvantage.

I'd point out that this is a an exotic advantage, and the hour takes the form of therapy, because people are used to that. 200 hours per point of disadvantage bought off is a plausible rate for effective mundane therapy.

[Icelander]

In the context of 'Mind Control therapy', I would like to point out that a certain Dr. Anderson, psychiatrist-at-large, from Jade Serenity, had the ability to perform 'Dream Therapy' on people. That was built using Mind Control, but obviously without the Hippocratic Oath limitation.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Vikingv

Does the ethical boundaries rely on the perception of the user of the power, or some other standard?

The user's interpretation of the Hippocratic Oath, which ought to include the Nuremberg Code in settings where that has been formulated (the campaign this was created for is a couple of years prior to that).

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think I have to disagree with that. As an atheist since early childhood, I would call a process that turned me into a Christian, Muslim, or Hindu and that transcended the normal process of reasoned argument "brainwashing." More generally, I'm opposed to ethical indoctrination that bypasses informed consent, which the process you describe seems to do.

See above. I've also been an atheist since I was capable of forming an opinion on it, but I tried to pack too much into "culturally-specific" and over-simplified: giving someone who already professes a religion an SoD to it in exchange for, e.g., a harmful Compulsive Behaviour, with informed consent, is plausibly ethical. Converting someone without their consent definitely is not.

[ericthered]

I've seen this ability in lots of games, both as a player and as a GM. Its lots of fun. Its game-warping, but its supposed to be game warping, and I've never felt that its "broken", "too cheap", or even "too expensive". I think that mentally I use it as a benchmark for how much powers are "supposed" to cost.



Mind Control has lots of different modifiers, and they tend to be pretty robust, letting lots of different mind control builds be made. I find that modifiers to make it permenant or to make it fire and forget work best.



Mind Control Characters work best when they have a strong sense of direction that trains their abilities in a specific direction. And I think mind controlling other player's characters, especially for more than a few seconds, is a similar offense to attacking them with any other ability.



My first ever Gurps character was a not-ISWAT telepath specializing in mind control. He was fun to play, but the mind control was a little too slow for the pace the GM threw at us.



I'm currently running a game in PbP (dreadstormers) in which mind control is a huge element of the game.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I don't think it's something on the metalevel. It's not that players react abnormally badly to the threat of Mind Control, it's that the mere suspicion that someone is capable of Mind Control will realistically cause a very high percentage of people (including almost all the powerful and/or violent ones) to fear and even hate them. Just the chance that someone may be able to Mind Control you means that you can no longer trust your experience, memories or even that you are, in any meaningful way, still you, while that person exists.

If Mind Control powers emerged in the real world, anyone suspected of being capable of manifesting them, even if the chance was remote, would probably not have much of a chance at a life.

Many people believe that RL hypnotists can do this and they are light entertainment.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by martinl

Many people believe that RL hypnotists can do this and they are light entertainment.

Eh, no one who matters believes that.

Security reviews and threat assessments are not based on the idea that hypnotists can actually hypnotize people.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by johndallman

If the GM required that the subject's disadvantage total didn't change, this gets harder, because there aren't many mental disadvantages that it's ethical to give people in trade for their existing ones. Sense of Duty to family, and other culturally-specific groups, such as churches, organisations or countries qualify, as do some Codes of Honour, and Honesty.

A plausible option would be some combination of partial Amnesia and/or Delusion (“I never really had that disadvantage”). It might even be necessary for the effect to hold together consistently.

Putting someone into a delusory state about their own memories might be ethically iffy, but if it leaves them less stressed out than when they were suffering from the past condition…

Originally Posted by Icelander

Well, also for other reasons, but in general, any character who is known to have Mind Control is going to have to deal with a lot of people reacting to their mere presence as someone threatening them with WMDs.

The comics series Die has some interesting reflections on how a category if people with this ability would be viewed and treated, and how the ability would mangle the user’s psyche.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Icelander

... Just the chance that someone may be able to Mind Control ...

If Mind Control powers emerged in the real world, anyone suspected of being capable of manifesting them, even if the chance was remote, would probably not have much of a chance at a life.

[RL Hypnotists]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Eh, no one who matters believes that.

So they're not even remotely suspected of being able to do the thing they claim to be able to do that they do in public for a living?

My alternative proposal is that in Real Life almost everyone thinks they are resistant or outright immune to propaganda, coercion and persuasion. If actual mind control was known to exist, most folks would think it worked on those weak minded jerks over there, and had some effect on their well meaning but soft minded friends, but it would never have any effect on them.

In an RPG, you know your character is vulnerable.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by martinl

[RL Hypnotists]


So they're not even remotely suspected of being able to do the thing they claim to be able to do that they do in public for a living?

I mean, no.

We don't think stage magicians can really teleport, create rabbits or read minds.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I mean, no.

We don't think stage magicians can really teleport, create rabbits or read minds.

As far as I am aware, the CIA never investigated stage magicians to see if their schtick was real, but they sure as heck investigated hypnotists. I think they even qualify as powerful and violent.