Healing and Decreased Immunity Enhancement

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I can't seem to find it on a cursory search. Maybe it was a 3rd edition thing. Or maybe it was an intent? I can't be certain, but it's definitely weird if you can't resist positive spells.

Magic, P.13

Resisted Spells
A spell of any type can also be “Resisted.” A spell like this works automatically only on a critical success. On a regular success, your spell must defeat the subject’s resistance to work.

The subject always has a chance to resist, even if he is unconscious. A conscious subject who is aware that something is happening may choose not to resist. Individuals who are unconscious, unfamiliar with magic, or wary of hostile magic always try to resist.

I don't see anything about automatic resistance, but healing can be resisted normally. Maybe bleed over from other game systems into the collective unconsciousness?

[Ejidoth]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Magic, P.13

I don't see anything about automatic resistance, but healing can be resisted normally. Maybe bleed over from other game systems into the collective unconsciousness?

I believe that's a misreading. What it's saying is that a spell with any other type (Regular, Area, etc.) can also be Resisted. That is, the 'Resisted' type is a type that a spell can have in addition to its other type. For example, Dullness (p. 134) is both 'Regular' and 'Resisted by HT'.

Healing spells are not, however, listed as Resisted spells.

[Tyneras]

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

I believe that's a misreading. What it's saying is that a spell with any other type (Regular, Area, etc.) can also be Resisted. That is, the 'Resisted' type is a type that a spell can have in addition to its other type. For example, Dullness (p. 134) is both 'Regular' and 'Resisted by HT'.

Healing spells are not, however, listed as Resisted spells.

Which would be very weird, given how many spells have no resistance listed. You can resist Dull (Sense) but not Keen (Sense). What if the noise is annoying or giving me a headache and I don't want to hear better? Just helpless as my hearing is enhanced until I'm howling in agony from the sound of my own blood I guess.

I'm just going to put this down as another reason GURPS Magic is the only 4E product with a 1 star review from me.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Maybe bleed over from other game systems into the collective unconsciousness?

At first I thought that might be true but then I went through and thought about it and remembered that positive healing can't be avoided by things that would take damage from it in one version of That Other Game and in many other games I've seen. Maybe it was just a houserule for the sake of 'that's too weird without this rule'.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Which would be very weird, given how many spells have no resistance listed. You can resist Dull (Sense) but not Keen (Sense).

What if the noise is annoying or giving me a headache and I don't want to hear better? Just helpless as my hearing is enhanced until I'm howling in agony from the sound of my own blood I guess.

Part of the problem here is that it's not entirely clear if having the bonus to sense rolls per M133 would necessarily make you more prone to damage from those sensation sources.

I think the key to constructing something along these lines would be to combine the expanded sound tables (they added decibal estimates - absent in Camapigns) from High-Tech with Tactical Shooting's rules for ear damage from nearby gunshots.

This would give earmuffs a double benefit: because Hard of Hearing would protect you on it's own, even without the extra benefit of Protected Hearing which muffs give.

Would love to find a way to fold Ear Clap into that somehow since it uses different deaf-crippling rules (in terms of when to resist, minutes of temporary deafness, etc) compared to Tactical Shooting.

The "deaf in one ear, perfect hearing in other" could also be revisited too, maybe by using separate hearing rolls for each ear, or finding a way to approximate "effective hearing" depending on where sound source is oriented relative to the stronger/weaker ears

[Tyneras]

Or be consistent and treat all magic as resistible, and just deal with the fact that Magic 4E was a shamefully poor product.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Or be consistent and treat all magic as resistible, and just deal with the fact that Magic 4E was a shamefully poor product.

Not all spells make sense as resistible. Damage spells are already bad enough, letting people further be able to resist the damage seems harsh. (I mean, this only further supports your second point)

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

Or be consistent and treat all magic as resistible, and just deal with the fact that Magic 4E was a shamefully poor product.

this would be consistent with Affliction being resistable and this being the vehicle for giving traits to people...

of course you could take the Symptoms approach but in that case magic needs to require HP loss as the req instead of save fail.

Maybe we just assume any spells that seem like they ought to be resistable but aren't, are likely because they are usually beneficial and the writers assume the will rolls would be voluntarily ceded?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

I believe that's a misreading. What it's saying is that a spell with any other type (Regular, Area, etc.) can also be Resisted. That is, the 'Resisted' type is a type that a spell can have in addition to its other type. For example, Dullness (p. 134) is both 'Regular' and 'Resisted by HT'.

Healing spells are not, however, listed as Resisted spells.

That's because the assumption is that people won't want to be healed. If they do, perhaps because they are mentally ill, or because they have a Divine Curse that causes healing spells to work in reverse then they'd resist with HT.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Not all spells make sense as resistible. Damage spells are already bad enough, letting people further be able to resist the damage seems harsh. (I mean, this only further supports your second point)

Some damage spells are resisted. Missile spells aren't because they aren't cast on the person you want to hit with the missile.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Some damage spells are resisted. Missile spells aren't because they aren't cast on the person you want to hit with the missile.

I get what you are saying, but that same reasoning could let there be a death bolt that doesn't allow resistance because it's a missile spell.