Automatic Deceptive Attack

[JazzJedi]

Deceptive attacks can represent extremely fast attacks that are difficult to defend against. So, it seems logical that a character with Altered Time Rate and/or Enhanced Time Sense could have an automatic penalty to defend against from their sheer speed. I was thinking of creating an advantage that does this:

Lightning-Fast Attacks [24/level]
Targets of your attacks have -1 penalty to defend against them.

I based the cost on 4/level for +1 skill, bought two levels (because each -1 deceptive attack is a -2 skill penalty) and then treated this as a Wild Card skill (triple cost because it applies to all attacks). Does that seem balanced? Or should it be 30/level, which is the same cost as Enhanced Defenses +1 which makes a certain level of sense? You could have it apply to only melee or ranged attacks for -50%.

[ericthered]

I'm trying to imagine buying this, and at what cost it would become worth it ... and it becomes a hard sell at anything much above 10/level.

Also, you generally can't use deceptive attacks with ranged weapons.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'm trying to imagine buying this, and at what cost it would become worth it ... and it becomes a hard sell at anything much above 10/level.

Also, you generally can't use deceptive attacks with ranged weapons.

Ranged weapons generally get the far better MoS based number of hits, and can use 'lead the target' to get a similar effect, so outside of potential so conservation issues I would have minimal issue with such a trait, but share the concerns that i an not sure the boost is actually worth it.

[JazzJedi]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I'm trying to imagine buying this, and at what cost it would become worth it ... and it becomes a hard sell at anything much above 10/level.

But Enhanced Defenses is 30/level. Shouldn't they be proportionally balanced?

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Ranged weapons generally get the far better MoS based number of hits, and can use 'lead the target' to get a similar effect, so outside of potential so conservation issues I would have minimal issue with such a trait, but share the concerns that i an not sure the boost is actually worth it.

High-tech guns maybe, but prettymuch anything in the TLs I play with is either one shot per second or slower than that. I don't even know how the rules for fast-firing guns are supposed to work because I've never needed them.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by simply Nathan

High-tech guns maybe, but prettymuch anything in the TLs I play with is either one shot per second or slower than that. I don't even know how the rules for fast-firing guns are supposed to work because I've never needed them.

Fantasy ranged weapons cab so make use of leading the target.

Fantasy throwers and bowmen can actually achieve non trivial RoFs, and the slurbow has an appreciable rof, so I am having trouble picturing a setting where this never comes up...

[simply Nathan]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Fantasy ranged weapons cab so make use of leading the target.

Fantasy throwers and bowmen can actually achieve non trivial RoFs, and the slurbow has an appreciable rof, so I am having trouble picturing a setting where this never comes up...

A thrower might be able to make use of Dual-Weapon Attack and Quick Draw to pull out two throwing weapons and throw both of them in the same turn, but that's the only way I can think of to attack more than once per turn and even then it's got nothing to do with MoS, it's just two separate attack rolls before someone else's turn starts.

I don't even know what a "slurbow" is or what book it'd be found in, and I'd probably disallow it in my own setting (where I have been waffling for years about whether I want to allow crossbows at all or if they violate the intended aesthetic). It's most certainly never come up around me before.

[Erling]

I'm not sure if it's worth the points. With ATR you can take AoA (Determined) and convert +4 bonus to skill into -2 penalty to enemy's active defenses with any weapon, and then choose any other maneuver, thus regaining your own active defenses.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by JazzJedi

Deceptive attacks can represent extremely fast attacks that are difficult to defend against. So, it seems logical that a character with Altered Time Rate and/or Enhanced Time Sense could have an automatic penalty to defend against from their sheer speed. I was thinking of creating an advantage that does this:

Lightning-Fast Attacks [24/level]
Targets of your attacks have -1 penalty to defend against them.

I based the cost on 4/level for +1 skill, bought two levels (because each -1 deceptive attack is a -2 skill penalty) and then treated this as a Wild Card skill (triple cost because it applies to all attacks). Does that seem balanced? Or should it be 30/level, which is the same cost as Enhanced Defenses +1 which makes a certain level of sense? You could have it apply to only melee or ranged attacks for -50%.

Each -1 deceptive attack is a -2 skill penalty

+2 DX costs 40 points
+2 DX! (+2 DX - 0.5 speed) costs 30 points and gives you +2 to all DX based skills.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Each -1 deceptive attack is a -2 skill penalty

+2 DX costs 40 points
+2 DX! (+2 DX - 0.5 speed) costs 30 points and gives you +2 to all DX based skills.

Another point: Wildcard skills, even seemingly entirely combat-y ones like Sword! include a lot of things that aren't combat skills. Sword! covers Acrobatics and Jumping rolls for swinging from a chandelier while attacking, it covers Intimidation rolls if you're using your sword for a bonus due to being menacing, it covers Connoisseur(Weapons) for swords, you can probably argue Armorer(Swords), at least for maintenance.

And skill rolls apply to all uses of the skill, this isn't for all uses of the combat skills, it's only for the specific thingy.

It's more like a Wildcard technique. Hard technique, costs 5 points to buy off the -4 penalty, *3 = 15 points.