Ability to create water flooded terrain

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

But that doesn't accurately represents water yet, we're looking just into the movement, and still afflictions can be resisted by an HT roll, which still doesn't makes sense to represent actual water.

If you're trying to tread through a shallow water body, you can't just roll for HT/Will/ST to ignore the bad terrain, you either have the penalties or an advantage/skill/equipment that allows you to ignore all of them.

Also, looking further into everything that an water environment means, it looks really complicated, as we can see in this thread. Trying to replicate every single penalty for shallow water/underwater environment in an affliction seems probably too complicated and probably really expensive. Having some of those is doable, but weird, I just need regular, non-damaging water filling the battlefield to give the environment upperhand.

I'm starting to think that unless I can consider an IA as water for all mundane purposes somehow, the only option would be Create with a lot of limitations of how it can be used to make the cost affordable and prevent dropping a 50-yard high water column at the oponent's head.

If you add Persistent it more or less does. You're getting hung up on the water part. Don't. "Matter Surfing" from Powers lets you fly along on ice, water, baby turtles, whatever and it doesn't require Create for that part. It just does. It's a feature.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

I'm starting to think that unless I can consider an IA as water for all mundane purposes somehow, the only option would be Create with a lot of limitations of how it can be used to make the cost affordable and prevent dropping a 50-yard high water column at the opponent's head.

You have to purchase the major effects and whatever the GM requires, but usually that does not include every possible ramification of an ability.
If for example this character does not have electrical powers and no one on the team does the surge effect is so unlikely to come up its a special effect. Even if electrical powers are in play some GMs would allow it as a feature. After all you could use mundane means to get someone wet.
Cosmic can also fill out a lot of details.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Understood, but for 5 points per level you can create 10 lbs. of any single liquid or solid material, so why choose ordinary water or earth when you could choose gasoline or diamonds?

I would certainly agree there are any number of problems with the way Create is defined. But that's really more a problem with the way we naively translate the concept ("I can create water") into GURPS mechanics ("Oh, look, there's an Advantage named 'Create'; problem solved!")

IMO, Create isn't a good starting point or the basis for a character concept like "I can create water to do X, Y, and Z". X, Y, and Z are the starting points, a bunch of water-themed abilities stacked in an Alternative Abilities group, while I'd leave Create just to cover the little stuff as yet another member of that AA when you just can't stand the build for an aqua-mage that somehow can't create a cup of water for tea.

Since I try to avoid Create as the basis for anything major, its problems bother me less in practice. (In my view, there's a reason it got left out until Powers. It's truly not fundamental. It's the last-resort gap filler.)

[Biscuri]

Ok, so considering everything you said, then it's safe to have a non-damaging innate-attack like this?

Innate Attack
Fatigue
Area of Effect (16 yards) [+200%]
Wall (Permeable) [+60%]
Persistent [+40%]
No Blunt Trauma [-20%]
No Knockback [-10%]
No Wounding [-50%]
Nature Power [-20%]
Costs Fatigue 1 [-5%]
Hazard (Drowning) [0%]
Symptoms (Slower Move 0.2x [40%], -4 DX [40%], -2 to attack, -1 to defend [50%]) [+130%]

And consider the swimming, conducting surface, blurred vision and other water interactions as features.

Refplace suggested Cosmic, so I could add a Cosmic (Works at full HP/FP, resisted by water-related abilites, wear off by getting out of the area) or something like that to Symptoms to make it more realistic, any idea how that would be priced? Avoiding drawkbacks is usually 50% (Pu4 pag. 7), but since it's replacing a drawback for another, should it be priced differently?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Ok, so considering everything you said, then it's safe to have a non-damaging innate-attack like this?

Seems good.

Originally Posted by Biscuri

And consider the swimming, conducting surface, blurred vision and other water interactions as features.

Maybe a special +10% enhancement? After all, those water-related features cause extra problems to foes.

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Refplace suggested Cosmic, so I could add a Cosmic (Works at full HP/FP, resisted by water-related abilites, wear off by getting out of the area) or something like that to Symptoms to make it more realistic, any idea how that would be priced? Avoiding drawkbacks is usually 50% (Pu4 pag. 7), but since it's replacing a drawback for another, should it be priced differently?

If the benefits and drawbacks work out to be about the same, it might be a +0% modifier.

For +50% to +300% Cosmic should provide some real clout to a power. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Biscuri

Ok, so considering everything you said, then it's safe to have a non-damaging innate-attack like this?

Innate Attack
Fatigue
Area of Effect (16 yards) [+200%]
Wall (Permeable) [+60%]
Persistent [+40%]
No Blunt Trauma [-20%]
No Knockback [-10%]
No Wounding [-50%]
Nature Power [-20%]
Costs Fatigue 1 [-5%]
Hazard (Drowning) [0%]
Symptoms (Slower Move 0.2x [40%], -4 DX [40%], -2 to attack, -1 to defend [50%]) [+130%]?

I think its ineligible for No Blunt Trauma, No Wounding, and No Knockback.
Knockback is limited to Crushing and Cutting attacks (p. B378), No Blunt Trauma specifically calls the the attacke types it eligible for.
No Wounding would mean no FP damage, making the Hazard useless.

You could go for 1 pt of damage or a full die. It depends how much water and how forcefully your pushing it out to the battlefield. 1 pt would be like a very very heavy rain and more more like being hit with an actual river of flooding water.

[Biscuri]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I think its ineligible for No Blunt Trauma, No Wounding, and No Knockback.
Knockback is limited to Crushing and Cutting attacks (p. B378), No Blunt Trauma specifically calls the the attacke types it eligible for.
No Wounding would mean no FP damage, making the Hazard useless.

You could go for 1 pt of damage or a full die. It depends how much water and how forcefully your pushing it out to the battlefield. 1 pt would be like a very very heavy rain and more more like being hit with an actual river of flooding water.

Oh right, I need to remove No Blunt Trauma and No Knockback then. About No Wounding, I had the idea of dealing no damage on the attack per se, as it is only there to create the water environment, the Hazard would only represent the water behavior of "if you can't breathe underwater and stay there too long, you drown", but thinking more about it, it would takes 5 seconds to drown, that's really just useless. I'll leave 1 die of damage.


Fatigue (10p/lvl)
Area of Effect (16 yards) [+200%]
Wall (Permeable) [+60%]
Persistent [+40%]
Nature Power [-20%]
Costs Fatigue 1 [-5%]
Hazard (Drowning) [0%]
Symptoms (Slower Move 0.2x [40%]; -4 DX [+40%]; -2 to attack, -1 to defend [+50%]; Water Features [+10%]; Cosmic, Works at full HP/FP, resisted by water-related abilites, wear off by getting out of the area [0%]) [+140%]

That sums up 52 points, seems reasonable.