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Old 06-04-2021, 12:10 PM   #31
johndallman
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
I think this points to another if not problematic at least odd feature of esoteric skills, that they can be really powerful in high-powered games, and in those contexts seem to favor Renaissance Man type builds (referring to the template in Supers) with both high DX and high IQ.
I don't see a serious problem with characters who've bought both DX and IQ having a few ways to make use of them in combination. There are plenty of ways to use very high IQ or very high DX alone.
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Old 06-04-2021, 12:12 PM   #32
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

It occurs to me that if you add a few abilities, the system in GURPS Thaumatology: Chinese Elemental Powers becomes a pretty good substitute for cinematic skills. My suggested additions:
  • Fire: Flight (Lighter Than Air, -10%; PM, -10%; Requires Surface, -20%; Slow, Air Move equals Basic Move, -25%) [14] or Walk on Air (Lighter Than Air, -10%; PM, -10%; Requires Surface, -20%) (Fire) [12] (both essentially different interpretations of Lighten body)
  • Earth: Metabolism Control (PM, -10%) [5] (here because the original book associates Body Control with Earth)
  • Metal: Mind Shield (Active, -25%; PM, -10%) [3] (call it "Iron Mind")
  • Water: Vibration Sense (PM, -10%; Universal, +50%) [14] (call it "Sensing Ripples")
Invisibility Art still has no equivalent, but a lot of cinematic feats covered by it are arguably just the Disappearing technique from Action 3. Sensitivity and Zen Archery are also missing, but those can mostly be handled by high skill or anything that grants a bonus to attack / defense rolls.

Last edited by Michael Thayne; 06-04-2021 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 06-04-2021, 03:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

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There's been a lot of debate over GURPS Magic, with complaints that it seems to have never really been "4e-ified" the way say the psionics system has. But somewhat surprisingly, I've never seen similar arguments about cinematic martial arts skills
I think that this is because cinematic martial arts characters are rarer than mages.

Also, arguably, Cinematic Martial Arts skills were adapted to 4E by dropping a whole bunch of really abusive esoteric skills from GURPS 3E (Mountain Heart, anyone?)
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Old 06-04-2021, 04:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

Whoops, when I wrote my previous post, I had missed that we already had a "Chinese Elemental" equivalent of Push, called Avalanche. Not sure why it's part of Earth, when the same book says it's Chinese Water Talent that grants access to Push. Deleted it.

Incidentally, to be more in line with the other abilities in the book, I should maybe make the Metabolism Control and Mind Shield-based abilities based on 2 levels of the respective advantages. That way, Extra Effort can grant +1 per -10 to the roll.
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Old 06-10-2021, 12:42 AM   #35
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

Related to some of the discussion in this thread, I once tried to build a super who combined Super Jump and Walk On Air, and quickly learned that it is simply an expensive way to build Flight, which given the chance of falling off of Air when Walking On it, seems a little off.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:52 AM   #36
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

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Originally Posted by lugaid View Post
Related to some of the discussion in this thread, I once tried to build a super who combined Super Jump and Walk On Air, and quickly learned that it is simply an expensive way to build Flight, .
<silly grin> ou didn't try and build it high enough. With Super Jump costing half as much as Super Flight Super Jump rapidly outstrips the Flight version.:)

Just another example of the not-balanced nature of eith Flying Leap or Super Jump depending on your perspective.

Also an example of why I am not terribly interested in Magic-as-Powers. I know too many places where Powers breaks.
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Old 06-10-2021, 09:52 AM   #37
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

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Who's had good experiences playing with these skills, either as a play or GM?
We used a number of custom techniques; one to buy off the penalty for removing the fatigue cost (an idea stolen from Imbuements), another to buy off the penalty for rapid usage, and others to reduce various even more specific penalties. We also permitted armed variants, the ability to stack higher multipliers on relevant skills and the no nuisance perk for non-combat uses.

It worked pretty well for that campaign. They were about as useful as the imbuements were.

It'd be a tie between the tool-, body- and sword-cultivator as to which one got the most bang for their points, the alchemist found theirs useful but not all that important, and both the tamer and the ghost-cultivator essentially only used theirs as travel powers.
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Old 06-10-2021, 01:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

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I don't think we've ever used Power Blow or Breaking Blow just because the -10 makes them effectively pointless except in very extreme contexts. The CP investment to make those skills work would work so much more effectively buying an innate melee attack. We have had characters us Pressure Secrets and Pressure Points to great effect.
That depends a lot on the point levels. The super tank at the end of the long fantasy campaign had several of the skills to very useful levels and used them often. But then again he was a 4000+ point character..
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: Opinions on cinematic martial arts skills?

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That depends a lot on the point levels. The super tank at the end of the long fantasy campaign had several of the skills to very useful levels and used them often. But then again he was a 4000+ point character..
The big problem with Power Blow is that striking ST isn't particularly appealing in games that permit innate attack, so things that boost striking ST also aren't all that appealing. The character that would have the best use for power blow is one that also has use for a lot of Will (now I'm considering an abusive build that takes advantage of all the stuff that uses Will).
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