GURPS version of Ghostly Reload D&D spell?

[thom]

So the crossbow-wielder in my PCs group wants a GURPS version of the 3.5 D&D spell that does this:

"...After the wielder shoots a projectile from the crossbow affected by this spell, the magic immediately cocks the crossbow so that the weapon can be loaded again. This spell pulls the string of a hand crossbow or light crossbow into place once per caster level (maximum ten times at caster level 10th) and the string of a heavy crossbow into place once per two caster levels (maximum five times at caster level 10th)."

With GURPS, I can see limiting the number of times a crossbow is cocked by Magery level, and the spell takes one second to cock the crossbow each time. My main questions for the groupbrain are:

• does limiting the spell by making it Very Hard vs. Hard to learn matter?
• ditto for adding the High skill does not reduce this spell’s cost language
• what about making the Time to Cast the spell be 2 seconds (vs. one)?
• and most importantly, exactly how much FP should this spell cost?

I'd appreciate any insight; thanks!

thom

[johndallman]

This already exists: Dancing Object, p. 144 in GURPS Magic. It's somewhat longer-lasting and easier than you are assuming.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by johndallman

This already exists: Dancing Object, p. 144 in GURPS Magic. It's somewhat longer-lasting and easier than you are assuming.

It works uniformly at ST15 as well which is something the D&D spell didn't need to specify.

But yes, in my World of D'y'r't game Gage, King of Rogues had a hand crossbow that self-cocked like this (among other things).

[thom]

Originally Posted by johndallman

This already exists: Dancing Object, p. 144 in GURPS Magic. It's somewhat longer-lasting and easier than you are assuming.

Hmmm...thanks for the input. Some questions, however:
• with the Dancing Object spell, it's not clear how many seconds in combat it takes for the crossbow to cock itself. Shouldn't it be more costly if it only takes one second to cock? What did y'all decide?
• this ties in with the 1st point; but does this mean the crossbow wielder could spend the entire combat just repeatedly firing his crossbow? Is that what happened in your games?

Thanks for any answers!

thom

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by thom

• With the Dancing Object spell, it's not clear how many seconds in combat it takes for the crossbow to cock itself. Shouldn't it be more costly if it only takes one second to cock? What did y'all decide?

First, we look at the box on p. 74 of Low-Tech that describes the process of loading a crossbow. That says it takes two seconds to draw a crossbow of your own ST, and a further two seconds to ready and load a bolt.

Dancing Object does work like a ST15 man, so we assume it takes the same length of time, two seconds. The advantage of this is that you can ready another bolt while the spell is drawing the crossbow. You then need a second to load the bolt into the crossbow, and you're ready to fire. You've cut the reload time from four to three seconds.

With two Dancing Object spells, you could plausibly argue that the bow can be cocked in a second, while you ready a new bolt, and then you need another second to load the bolt. Reload time is now two seconds.

If you want a still better rate of fire, acquire Tactical Shooting and buy Quick Reload (Crossbow), letting you load the bolt as a free action. Reload time is now one second, and that's about as good as you can get.

When coming to GURPS from D&D, it's necessary to remember that combat turns are much shorter. Some things end up working differently.

Originally Posted by thom

• This ties in with the 1st point; but does this mean the crossbow wielder could spend the entire combat just repeatedly firing his crossbow? Is that what happened in your games?

I'm not quite clear what you mean by "just repeatedly firing his crossbow." You'd have to load it, and probably aim, as well as pulling the trigger.

My current crossbow-wielder doesn't even try to reload during fights. He shoots once as opponents approach, then discards the crossbow and fast-draws a sword.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by johndallman

If you want a still better rate of fire, acquire Tactical Shooting and buy Quick Reload (Crossbow), letting you load the bolt as a free action. Reload time is now one second, and that's about as good as you can get.
.

You can also accomplish this with an Enchanted Quick Draw quiver. Crossbow bolts would leap from one of those without any need for a Ready action.

It might have amounted to a major variant of this but Gage, King of Rogues (she's picky about her title) and her gimmicked hand crossbow had her bolts leap from a Quick Draw quiver mounted on the crossbow (which was also Enchanted with Hideaway and held 200 bolts) straight into position on the cocked crossbow.

Eh, Gage, King of Rogues may have been cheating but what else would you expect from the likes of her?

[thom]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Dancing Object does work like a ST15 man, so we assume it takes the same length of time, two seconds. The advantage of this is that you can ready another bolt while the spell is drawing the crossbow. You then need a second to load the bolt into the crossbow, and you're ready to fire. You've cut the reload time from four to three seconds.

When coming to GURPS from D&D, it's necessary to remember that combat turns are much shorter. Some things end up working differently.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but what the PC wants is a version of Dancing Object that works only for crossbows, and he's willing to pay for it to happen in one second. This would allow him to:
• turn 1: shoot the crossbow
• turn 2: the spell cocks the crossbow [as a Free Action], while he makes a Fast-Draw (bolt) roll to place a bolt [success makes this a Free Action] and then brings the crossbow to ready [a Ready Action]
• turn 3: shoot the crossbow

Based on the input, I'm leaning towards charging the same cost [4FP/2FP], making the time to cast two seconds, and going with the Magery limitation to balance out the numerous differences with Dancing Object.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by thom

Based on the input, I'm leaning towards charging the same cost [4FP/2FP], making the time to cast two seconds, and going with the Magery limitation to balance out the numerous differences with Dancing Object.

The spell working Magery times is.....odd compared to other Spells. Most Gurps spells that last more than 1 Turn/Second just have a Duration in seconds.

Looking at he Cost of 4/2 I'd have thought that it already had a Duration. By the usual Gurps notation the "2" should be the Cost to Maintain the Spell for its' listed Duration.

At any rate it's a pretty expensive Spell and very limited. Great Haste would double RoF with crossbows and do a lot of other things too.

[Pursuivant]

Meta-comments, not necessarily applicable to the spell(s) under discussion.

Originally Posted by thom

• does limiting the spell by making it Very Hard vs. Hard to learn matter?

It matters very little. The difference between Hard/Very Hard is -1 to skill per any given level of skill. That is, 4 character points, maximum.

Originally Posted by thom

• ditto for adding the High skill does not reduce this spell’s cost language

This matters more for spells with a relatively high basic cost, say 4+ mana/FP/whatever to cast.

Originally Posted by thom

• what about making the Time to Cast the spell be 2 seconds (vs. one)?

Time to cast is a big game balancer when designing new spells. 1 vs. 2 seconds isn't that big a deal (unless it's a spell which would be really convenient to cast in just one second, like a Protection spell), but moving from 1 sec. to 3 or 5 sec., or 3 or 5 sec. to 10+ sec. makes a spell much less effective in combat.

Casting time for non-combat spells has little effect as long as they have sufficient duration or low enough maintenance cost that they can be cast before combat and sustained/ maintained once the fighting starts.

Originally Posted by thom

• and most importantly, exactly how much FP should this spell cost?

Assuming your average mage has FP 10-12, and possibly 3-5 points in powerstones, energy reserves, etc.:

1 FP: Trivial spells where it's reasonable for a mage with skill 15+ to cast or maintain the spell for free. This includes combat spells which do ~1d HP damage with a second skill roll like Innate Attack or Brawling.

2-3 FP: Relatively minor spells which won't slow a mage down too much if they're cast several times in quick succession, and where it might be reasonable for a high skill mage to maintain or cast the spell for cheap or free. This includes combat spells which do 2d to 3d HP damage with a second skill roll.

4-5 FP: Moderately powerful spells which will slow a mage down if they're cast more than once per combat. This includes combat spells which have a decent chance of taking out a foe with a failed resistance roll.

6-9 FP: Powerful spells which will slow the mage down if they're cast more than once per combat. These should be "potentially fight ending" or "adventure completing" spells which have a decent chance of taking out a major foe or solving a major problem.

10+ FP: Very powerful spells which are basically "one and done" unless a mage has access to major energy reserves. These are "guaranteed fight enders" or major problem-solvers like teleportation or "death spells."

The same holds for maintenance costs, but since maintenance costs tend to be 33-75% of casting cost, a comparatively low maintenance cost allows a powerful mage to maintain a spell indefinitely as long as they're willing to take the penalty for having an "on" spell. Requiring a minimum maintenance cost of 1 FP regardless of skill is a very good game balance tool.

THE big game balancer is the prerequisite tree. Spells which regularly do 3d to 6d HP damage a turn, or which can reliably defeat powerful foes become much less unbalanced if you have to invest at least 15-25+ points in other spells before you can "unlock" them.

Other tricks for game balance:

* Requiring minimum attribute levels other than IQ (e.g., DX 13+).
* Requiring additional advantages other than Magery, notably Unusual Background or social traits like Rank.
* Requiring at least some of the casting or maintenance cost to be paid in HP.
* Imposing ugly side effects, like risk of permanent attribute or advantage loss.
* Imposing a minimum area of effect for Area spells.

[thom]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

The spell working Magery times is.....odd compared to other Spells. Most Gurps spells that last more than 1 Turn/Second just have a Duration in seconds.

Looking at the Cost of 4/2 I'd have thought that it already had a Duration. By the usual Gurps notation the "2" should be the Cost to Maintain the Spell for its' listed Duration.

At any rate it's a pretty expensive Spell and very limited. Great Haste would double RoF with crossbows and do a lot of other things too.

Good Points all! So, how about:
• 3 FP to cast, this spell cannot be maintained.

Fred, you don't think it's too powerful if it lasts for a full minute? That could allow some sniper to fire a crossbow up to 20 times!?

thom