09-04-2020, 08:46 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Saskatoon, SK
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Move and Attack
Are any attack modifiers disallowed when using MaA?
I assume you can't use Deceptive Attack since your effective skill aside from DA has to be at least 12 and MaA is capped at 9 If I have Broadsword - 24, can I make two attacks (-6) at the neck (-5) for 9-? If the answer is different for DFRPG, what would that be?
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MiB 7704 Playing: GURPS Nordlond Dragons of Hosgarth Running Savage Worlds Tour of Darkness (Vietnam + Mythos) |
09-04-2020, 11:06 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: Move and Attack
The cap doesn't happen until all modifiers. You can drop your skill to 10 with DA then MaA will shunt it to 9. Same for any other modifiers, you really might as well drop your skill to 9 because it's 'free'.
There's also a technique that lets you buy off the penalty for MaA. If you fully buy it off the cap goes away. Sadly I can't remember what book its in but it's very cinematic. |
09-04-2020, 11:20 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Move and Attack
That is not correct. The rules say "You may not reduce your final effective skill below 10 with a Deceptive Attack, which normally limits it to skilled fighters." So, no Deceptive Move and Attacks. You can do lots of other things with a MaA, like aim for specific hit locations, but Deceptive Attacks are out.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
09-04-2020, 11:30 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Move and Attack
At first I thought the only way for it to make sense to ban Deceptive Attacks (because that involves at least taking a -2 to skill penalty) is if the DA penalty were applied AFTER reducing skill to 9...
If that's the case then why would other penalties be applied BEFORE reducing skill to 9? But now I something like because "the final effective skill can never be below 10 on a DA" that even though DA itself doesn't reduce skill that low, you can't use it? Slam might be exception since there's no skill 9 cap |
09-05-2020, 12:41 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: Move and Attack
Quote:
EDIT: Martial Arts disagrees with me. My guess is this might be the intent, but reading Basic only I still stand by MaA allowing DA, but introducing Martial Arts rules into the game takes the option away. You could interpret this as MA talking about adding more realism to MaA. I guess this might just be a new house rule for me if it isn't the intent since MaA is already so bad that I don't see a need to limit it like this.
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Last edited by kirbwarrior; 09-05-2020 at 12:55 AM. |
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09-05-2020, 02:08 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Move and Attack
If you can reduce the hit chance with DA, and then drop it below 10 with further penalties, that means you can cheat caps by altering the order you apply penalties, and that seems counter to a sensible reading of the rules.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." Last edited by Rupert; 09-06-2020 at 04:44 PM. |
09-05-2020, 03:23 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: Move and Attack
Quote:
Mind, I'm definitely reading things very much like I'd read rules in a card game or similar. And it just seems too weird that you can't use any amount of DA at all with Move and Attack. However, if you wanted to read Move and Attack another way, it could imply you have to adjust your final skill to 9 or less which frankly sounds insane but I could see it and that would preclude DA. But the way MaA is worded very much sounds like the 9 comes absolutely last. I guess if you wanted an actual order; Most penalties (including -4 from MaA) -> DA -> cap of 9. That's how I interpret it. From a game perspective it makes sense to me, from a realism perspective it still makes sense to me. Mind, I'm kind of more confused now about the cap. Is it really easier to run and throw a hatchet than to hit something with it? At higher skill levels I don't get any better in melee but it becomes much easier to throw it? |
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09-06-2020, 01:13 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Move and Attack
Quote:
You can already 'cheat caps' by applying OTHER penalties before the 9 cap though, so why not this one? |
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09-06-2020, 05:16 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Move and Attack
Because the other penalties don't say "but you can't do this if you end up under X". Deceptive Attack says that you can't go under 10. A Move and Attack forces you down to 9. Therefore, you can't do an DA during a non-Slam MaA. Martial Arts didn't introduce this, it clarified it.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
09-06-2020, 06:18 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Move and Attack
The debate seems to center around the order in which modifiers are applied compared to the cap -- modify base skill down, then reduce it to 9 as the last step, or reduce skill to 9, then apply modifiers?
Martial Arts clarifies the order (modifiers first, then cap), and also notes a number of options aren't allowed in combination with Move and Attack. Quote:
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