Penalty for for having to shoot down a tube?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Precise range measurement (and precision measurement in general) are TL5.

Test shots, however, can be done earlier, and should give the same bonus.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Test shots, however, can be done earlier, and should give the same bonus.

Isn't that the Follow Up Shots bonus?

[BraselC5048]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Test shots, however, can be done earlier, and should give the same bonus.

If there's no test shots, but the speed is known to be zero (probably at least +1.5 of the bonus), and you've been standing around in front of the target for a minute or so, and the range is very short anyway (under 10 yards), I figure you can tell the range precisely enough anyway, with some practice to at least a yard or so, without having to pace it off. I also suspect that when using a bow, for example, that knowing what the distance to the target right there is in feet is less important than having plenty of time to visually see what the distance is, since the actual number wouldn't be worth much.

At anything past short range, say 10-20 yards at the most, knowing the distance would be far more important.

[Green-Neck]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

So adjustable sights do nothing?

Settle down there big fella.
I find adjustable sights very useful for matching my cross hairs to my ammunition at a known range. When I'm hunting I don't have time to adjust my sights, or I go home hungry. I suspect your gun needs are very different to mine. That's ok.
The point I was making was about fixed sights and known ranges. I would allow the +3 for fixed sights, and also for other weapons such as bows. The lower the velocity the more important range estimation becomes, and I think the ability to judge distance is one of the major components to any ranged weapon skill.
I would also suggest that whilst precision measurement does not arrive until tl5, neither do precise ranged weapons.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Green-Neck

I find adjustable sights very useful for matching my cross hairs to my ammunition at a known range.

What game mechanics do you suppose apply here then?

When I'm hunting I don't have time to adjust my sights, or I go home hungry.

If you don't have time, then why do you suppose you can claim a bonus that expressly is for: non-combat shooting on known range courses; laser rangefinders; and fixed support positions or sniper positions with range cards? The +3 for known range isn't supposed to be a typical bonus for combat shooting.

The point I was making was about fixed sights and known ranges. I would allow the +3 for fixed sights, and also for other weapons such as bows. The lower the velocity the more important range estimation becomes, and I think the ability to judge distance is one of the major components to any ranged weapon skill.

Isn't that then therefore a component of skill rather than an external conditional bonus?

I would also suggest that whilst precision measurement does not arrive until tl5, neither do precise ranged weapons.

In which case a bonus for precise range isn't useful until weapons exist that can benefit from it.

[BraselC5048]

And I suspect that a major reason for the bonus is that the target's speed and direction are known to be zero. Consider the difference between shooting at something that's unpredictably moving at a non-constant speed (i.e. something resembling combat), versus shooting at something that completely stationary, and isn't going to be going anywhere. I don't see any other bonus that would represent that, the pressure ones wouldn't, and the being on a range bonus has much more to do with the environment then the nature of the target. So it seems that the +3 is for that reason as much as anything else.

Besides, it's not like adjustable sights have settings for 5 yards, 10 yards, and 20 yards anyway, so there wouldn't be any bonus over a fixed sight in the first place at short ranges. It would only matter if the sight actually had something to be adjusted to for the range - long range shooting.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by BraselC5048

And I suspect that a major reason for the bonus is that the target's speed and direction are known to be zero.

You get the same bonus with a rangefinder in combat.

Consider the difference between shooting at something that's unpredictably moving at a non-constant speed (i.e. something resembling combat), versus shooting at something that completely stationary, and isn't going to be going anywhere.

You wouldn't get the bonus on an unknown range course with stationary targets.

Besides, it's not like adjustable sights have settings for 5 yards, 10 yards, and 20 yards anyway, so there wouldn't be any bonus over a fixed sight in the first place at short ranges. It would only matter if the sight actually had something to be adjusted to for the range - long range shooting.

Yes, but this is a problem with a lot of bonuses for ranged weapons in GURPS. Many of them probably ought to only reduce penalties for range only.