Action Points & Maneuvers

[Henchman99942]

I started using Action Points to pick custom Maneuvers a while back. It seems to work pretty well. You start with a base of FIVE action points. If you burn a Fatigue, you may add ONE action point for ONE round (second) of combat. Order of listing is MAD (Move, Attack Defense). This helps eliminate any confusion when using combat cards. I like to make the players slot their Maneuvers one round ahead of time (for normals), two rounds ahead of time (for combat paralysis), and no slotting required (for combat reflexes). Basically this consists of placing your intended maneuver action on a 3x5 card face down in front of you at the end of your turn, then on your next turn, you may take the action listed on the card.

Action Points & Maneuver Values

Pnts Movement Value
0 None
1 Step
2 Half Move
3 Full Move

Pnts Attack Value
0 None
1 Wild Swing
2 Normal Attack
3 Enhanced Attack (All Out Attack)

Pnts Defense Value
0 None
1 Limited (Some defense options unavailable and/or at penalty)
2 Normal
3 Enhanced Defense (All Out Defense)


Maneuver M/A/D

Move......3/0/2
Aim........1/2/2
Ready.....1/2/2
Attack.....1/2/2
AOA........2/3/0
AOD........2/0/3
MAA........3/1/1


This is a fairly simple system. You are still beholden to the book for details. A "2/0/3" is an All Out Dodge, and has a Half move, but it still limited by same restrictions as the actual maneuver (Half move only with increased dodge defense), and so on. A 'Ready' requires '2' Attack action points, but you can change your maneuver to a Moving Ready (2/2/1) or (3/2/0). Additional common sense restrictions like those imposed for moving while Aiming that are outlined in a standard maneuver apply. A GM may permit a Moving Aim and impose restrictions on the Aim - only the accuracy bonus of the weapon for (2/2/1) and only half that bonus for (3/2/0). Change Posture is treated as a Move with the Move points going to the posture change.

The idea is to allow greater flexibility AND to allow new players a somewhat easier combat system. They just allocate the action points and the GM explains the consequences.

[aesir23]

Interesting.

Do you consider it a feature or a bug that someone could attack normally and then defend as though with All-Out Defense or attack with the bonuses of All-Out Attack and still defend normally, provided they don't move (0/2/3 and 0/3/2)?

That's a pretty big change to RAW, and a couple of very powerful new options when you're going toe-to-toe with an enemy.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Interesting.

Do you consider it a feature or a bug that someone could attack normally and then defend as though with All-Out Defense or attack with the bonuses of All-Out Attack and still defend normally, provided they don't move (0/2/3 and 0/3/2)?

That's a pretty big change to RAW, and a couple of very powerful new options when you're going toe-to-toe with an enemy.

OTOH, it's a pretty big disincentive to Retreating.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by Henchman99942

I started using Action Points to pick custom Maneuvers a while back. It seems to work pretty well. You start with a base of FIVE action points. If you burn a Fatigue, you may add ONE action point for ONE round (second) of combat. Order of listing is MAD (Move, Attack Defense). This helps eliminate any confusion when using combat cards. I like to make the players slot their Maneuvers one round ahead of time (for normals), two rounds ahead of time (for combat paralysis), and no slotting required (for combat reflexes). Basically this consists of placing your intended maneuver action on a 3x5 card face down in front of you at the end of your turn, then on your next turn, you may take the action listed on the card.

Action Points & Maneuver Values

Pnts Movement Value
0 None
1 Step
2 Half Move
3 Full Move

Pnts Attack Value
0 None
1 Wild Swing
2 Normal Attack
3 Enhanced Attack (All Out Attack)

Pnts Defense Value
0 None
1 Limited (Some defense options unavailable and/or at penalty)
2 Normal
3 Enhanced Defense (All Out Defense)


Maneuver M/A/D

Move......3/0/2
Aim........1/2/2
Ready.....1/2/2
Attack.....1/2/2
AOA........2/3/0
AOD........2/0/3
MAA........3/1/1


This is a fairly simple system. You are still beholden to the book for details. A "2/0/3" is an All Out Dodge, and has a Half move, but it still limited by same restrictions as the actual maneuver (Half move only with increased dodge defense), and so on. A 'Ready' requires '2' Attack action points, but you can change your maneuver to a Moving Ready (2/2/1) or (3/2/0). Additional common sense restrictions like those imposed for moving while Aiming that are outlined in a standard maneuver apply. A GM may permit a Moving Aim and impose restrictions on the Aim - only the accuracy bonus of the weapon for (2/2/1) and only half that bonus for (3/2/0). Change Posture is treated as a Move with the Move points going to the posture change.

The idea is to allow greater flexibility AND to allow new players a somewhat easier combat system. They just allocate the action points and the GM explains the consequences.

So I'm guessing this has nothing to do with the Action Points from Douglas Cole's The Last Gasp from Alternate GURPS II?

My main concern is that I can make an All-Out Attack (Determined) Wild Swing. but which price do I pay with your system? Also, how do I get "Action Points" back? Is there any way to get more than 5 points?

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Humabout

So I'm guessing this has nothing to do with the Action Points from Douglas Cole's The Last Gasp from Alternate GURPS II?

My main concern is that I can make an All-Out Attack (Determined) Wild Swing. but which price do I pay with your system? Also, how do I get "Action Points" back? Is there any way to get more than 5 points?

I would assume that you start each turn with 5 ap. As for buying more, it costs 100 points to get and entire new turn so...20 pts per ap?

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Humabout

Is there any way to get more than 5 points?

Per the OP, you can get another one by spending a FP.

Originally Posted by corwyn

OTOH, it's a pretty big disincentive to Retreating.

Good point--and interesting. Players would have to plan ahead and save points if they think they might need to use a retreating defense.

I also noticed, just now, that this system doesn't seem to support the new maneuvers from Martial Arts, e.g. Committed and Defensive Attacks. For that we'd need moderate levels of Enhanced Attack and Enhanced Defense for fewer points.

I do like the concept, though, especially if it could be tweaked to allow all the current options plus some interesting new combinations.

I'd be totally fine with, for example, sacrificing movement in order to make a Committed Attack without any defensive drawbacks, but I think being able to do it with All-Out Attack is too much.

[Humabout]

So how many points does an All-Out Attack (Determined) Wild Swing cost?

[Henchman99942]

If any of the combinations create conflicts with existing rules, I suggest working them out ahead of time. There are a limited number of possible ways to spend action points. it should not be too hard to look at them all.

To clarify: I require a Will test to buy that extra action point with FP, the same as non-combat Extra Effort attempts, and apply the same penalties for Failure and Critical Failure (The fatigue spent on the attempt in this case is 1). For the purpose of determining limb crippling, the Extra Effort is being applied to the portion of the maneuver with the highest value, with ties going in order of: 'MAD' (Move, Attack, Defense). I also employ the 'The Rule of 14' used on Fright Checks on these Will tests. So eventually burning FP for action points will come back to bite the player on the rear.


aesir23,
I have been allowing 0/2/3 and 0/3/2 maneuvers (No move, and either an all out attack and normal defense or a normal attack and an all out defense). However, I have only been allow 'Retreating' if the maneuver has at least (1) point in move. (You could also use extra effort and spend a fatigue, if successful, on an all out attack AND all out defense).

However, you bring up a good theoretical point. Most combat requires some footwork and the listed Maneuvers having an Attack component include a 'Step'. I may have to rethink allowing move of (0) in Maneuvers that have melee Attacks or even Dodges. Maybe requiring a move of at least (1) as a prerequisite for All Out Attacks (3) and regular Attacks (2), but allowing a move of (0) for clumsy Attacks (1) would be a workable solution.

I am not as familiar with Martial Arts and Committed and Defensive Attacks. I would need to go over them again.

Humabout,
No, I have not read, 'Douglas Cole's The Last Gasp'. The idea for action points (presented itself/was forced upon me) as a result of players asking to do things that were not covered under normal maneuvers.

In allocating action points, you can either spend (3) for an All Out Attack, (2) for a regular Attack, or (1) for a clumsy Attack that is as 'effective' as a 'Wild Swing'. If you spend (1) point for a clumsy Attack, you are stuck with an ungainly, clumsy Aattack that suffers from the same penalties as a Wild Swing (-5 to hit and restricts your effective skill to not exceed 9) but is applied to foes in FRONT of you (Front Hex). The clumsy nature of this Attack comes from the fact that you only spend (1) Attack action point on it.

Positional restrictions, such as your foe being on your Side or Back, reduce your regular Attack (cost 2) to a Wild Swing (cost 2). Using an 'All Out Attack: Determined' against such a foe rather than a regular Attack would cost 1 additional point (3) instead of (2), and would EITHER mitigate some of the Wild Swing penalties OR turn it into an effective regular Attack. (In the spirit of simplicity, I would just make it turn a 'positional' Wild Swing into an effective regular Attack). If you calculate it as offsetting the penalties, then it would reduce the penalty for such an attack to -1 (Instead of -5) and raise your maximum effective skill to 9+4=13. But if your foe is simply on your Side rather than your Back, spend that (1) action point on Movement and turn to face him instead - making a regular Attack (cost 2).

Action points are depleted and replenished every combat round. You cannot save any from one combat round to the next, and they are automatically replenished to (5) on the next combat round. The best way to think of them is simply as a way to build custom maneuvers. You can choose a new maneuver every combat round normally. Action points work like that.

corwyn,
I have not thought about buying 'Altered Time Rate' piecemeal. Using AOA (Double) you can make two attacks, so one could take the view point that a precedence has been set for allowing multiple attacks. I think buying a larger action point pool sounds like a plausible rules addition. But I am not sure whether or at what point to treat maneuvers taken as one or two separate maneuvers.

Thanks, everyone, for the analysis, views and opinions.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Henchman99942

I have been allowing 0/2/3 and 0/3/2 maneuvers (No move, and either an all out attack and normal defense or a normal attack and an all out defense). However, I have only been allow 'Retreating' if the maneuver has at least (1) point in move. (You could also use extra effort and spend a fatigue, if successful, on an all out attack AND all out defense).

However, you bring up a good theoretical point. Most combat requires some footwork and the listed Maneuvers having an Attack component include a 'Step'. I may have to rethink allowing move of (0) in Maneuvers that have melee Attacks or even Dodges. Maybe requiring a move of at least (1) as a prerequisite for All Out Attacks (3) and regular Attacks (2), but allowing a move of (0) for clumsy Attacks (1) would be a workable solution.

I'll have to look over the rules in basic again, but I wonder if there's a way to simply charge more for some actions to avoid these combinations.

Originally Posted by Henchman99942

I am not as familiar with Martial Arts and Committed and Defensive Attacks. I would need to go over them again.

They're quite simple. Committed Attacks are less extreme All-Out Attacks--they can be Strong or Determined, but the bonuses to hit or damage are halve, and defenses are restricted and penalized rather than removed entirely (-2, no defense with the attacking weapon, no retreats, IIRC).

Defensive Attacks trade a damage penalty to a bonus to one defense next round.

Personally, I quite like them, and would want to figure out a way to recreate them in your new system. Something like:

Pnts Movement Value
0 None
1 Step
2 Half Move
3 Full Move

Pnts Attack Value
-1 None
0 Wild Swing
1 Light Attack (ala Defensive)
2 Normal Attack
3 Minor Enhanced Attack (Ala Committed)
4 Enhanced Attack (All Out Attack)

Pnts Defense Value
-1 None
1 Limited (Some defense options unavailable and/or at penalty)
2 Normal
3 Minor Enhanced Defence (Defensive Attack)
4 Major Enhanced Defense (All Out Defense)

This way, a Defensive Attack is 1/1/3 and a Committed Attack is 1/3/1. All-Out Attacks still work as 2/4/-1, and All-Out Defenses allow 2/-1/4. You can, theoretically allow an all-out attack with a limited defense (0/4/1) by eliminating steps and retreats.

I'm also okay with the unintended side effect of allowing Wild Swings with an All-Out defense and a Step (1/0/4).