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Old 10-25-2020, 04:41 PM   #11
Rupert
 
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Regarding Hardcore Improvisation and Psi (Magic) Amplifiers

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Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
I was under the impression that "Abilities at Default" were limited to one use or one minute. Does Sorcery hardcore improvisation not have the same limits?
Abilities at Default requires a reroll and paying the FP over again every minute for a continuing power. It does not say that the power turns off and has to be restarted.

Sorcery says that you can maintain a hardcore improvised spell like normal (so 1FP every minute). However, sorcery also allows spells of fixed duration, and these do not require maintenance. As written, that means you can improvise a spell with as much duration as your point investment into Sorcerous Empowerment allows.

So, I want a Scryguard (Sorcery, p.21) that lasts longer, and I've got Sorcery-6 (and thus a 70 point cap). Scryguard has a full ocst of 68-points. I hardcore improvise one that instead of 100x duration (+80%), has 300x duration (+100%), and this version has a full cost of 70-points and will last 15-hours. With one more level of Sorcery I could bump that to Permanent, and with two more to 'unremovable permanent' if the GM was careless enough to allow it.

Part of the problem here is that the duration extension is a modifier to the affliction that's 'carrying' the main effect, and is thus really cheap. The other is that fixed duration spells are complete 'fire and forget' (though if they weren't Sorcery would be very limited because of only being able to have one spell running at a time), so a Sorcerer can just stack them up.

Having the FP spent in casting them remain committed to durational spells is quite appealing. As that's only 1FP per spell (because the extra FP cost for hardcore improvisation is not for casting the spell, but for 'creating' it), it'll provide a definite limit to the number of long-duration spells a sorcerer will want 'up', especially as they have to pay FP to kill them.

I was considering using Threshold Magic, which wouldn't be a strong limitation on sorcerers, but it'd be interesting with durational spells holding their casting cost, because that means those spells' costs would never go away while the spells were up. With a low threshold and reasonably quick recovery that could be an interesting limit on buff-happy sorcerers.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:45 AM   #12
JulianLW
 
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Regarding Hardcore Improvisation and Psi (Magic) Amplifiers

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Sorcery says that you can maintain a hardcore improvised spell like normal (so 1FP every minute). However, sorcery also allows spells of fixed duration, and these do not require maintenance. As written, that means you can improvise a spell with as much duration as your point investment into Sorcerous Empowerment allows.

So, I want a Scryguard (Sorcery, p.21) that lasts longer, and I've got Sorcery-6 (and thus a 70 point cap). Scryguard has a full ocst of 68-points. I hardcore improvise one that instead of 100x duration (+80%), has 300x duration (+100%), and this version has a full cost of 70-points and will last 15-hours. With one more level of Sorcery I could bump that to Permanent, and with two more to 'unremovable permanent' if the GM was careless enough to allow it.

Part of the problem here is that the duration extension is a modifier to the affliction that's 'carrying' the main effect, and is thus really cheap. The other is that fixed duration spells are complete 'fire and forget' (though if they weren't Sorcery would be very limited because of only being able to have one spell running at a time), so a Sorcerer can just stack them up.
Wait. What?!

*checks book*

Whaaat?!

With enough Sorcerous Empowerment, you can have all kinds of permanent advantages! Has there been a thread about this before? Is this, like, well-known? Now I'd like to see what effects are achievable at what levels. Like, at what level does every Sorcerer effectively become bullet-proof?! At what level does every Sorcery get the switchable invisibility advantage?

Question: Is this "fire-and-forget" rule based on anything in Powers that I'm somehow missing? Or did this loophole first appear in Sorcery?
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Regarding Hardcore Improvisation and Psi (Magic) Amplifiers

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Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Wait. What?!
With enough Sorcerous Empowerment, you can have all kinds of permanent advantages!
I think I'd be inclined to allow the +150% version of Permanent on Affliction, with the condition that the triggers that can terminate the condition must include the Dispel Magic spell (or maybe Remove Curse), and the Neutralise Magic power, and the afflicted advantage must include the Magical, -10% modifier.

The really-truly-permanent +300% version I'd say the receiving character needed to spend the character points. I might let them buy it over time, maybe by paying for a version with Uncontrollable at first and then buying that off gradually to imitate them getting used to their new ability. That's GM fiat, I can't remember what the RAW say about truly-permanent afflictions.
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:58 AM   #14
Rupert
 
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Regarding Hardcore Improvisation and Psi (Magic) Amplifiers

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Originally Posted by Crystalline_Entity View Post
I think I'd be inclined to allow the +150% version of Permanent on Affliction, with the condition that the triggers that can terminate the condition must include the Dispel Magic spell (or maybe Remove Curse), and the Neutralise Magic power, and the afflicted advantage must include the Magical, -10% modifier.

The really-truly-permanent +300% version I'd say the receiving character needed to spend the character points. I might let them buy it over time, maybe by paying for a version with Uncontrollable at first and then buying that off gradually to imitate them getting used to their new ability. That's GM fiat, I can't remember what the RAW say about truly-permanent afflictions.
Characters (B105) says "If there is no way to end the effect, the enhancement is +300%. To keep PCs from granting each other free advantages, the GM may wish to forbid this level of Extended Duration on Afflictions with the Advantage modifier."

I see it as a good excuse to be allowed to purchase a new advantage that you wouldn't normally be able to gain such as, for example, Darkvision.

Powers expands of this slightly (P102): "The +300% level of Permanent can be unbalancing on Afflictions with the Advantage enhancement. If the GM permits this combination, the best way to keep things fair is to require the recipient to buy the granted advantage with unspent points if he wishes to keep it. Otherwise, the benefits vanish after the usual duration."

Any buff that sorcery applies should be magical, to my understanding (and the affliction that applies it takes the full sorcery limitation, generally).
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Regarding Hardcore Improvisation and Psi (Magic) Amplifiers

The same could be done using Magical Powers, though you would need enough points in a single ability to improvise such a working. For example, a mage could have Affliction (HT; Cone, 50 yards, +490%; Extended Duration, Permanent, +150%; Incapacition, Petrification, +150%; Magical Powers, -10%; Malediction 3, +200%; Selective Area, +20%) [120] as their core ability, take TK 20 (Based on Will, +20%; Magical Powers, -10%) as an AA, and improvise new Afflictions off their core ability (it also has the added bonus of being an Affliction, so it avoids the extra -2 penalty).
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:26 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Sorcery] Regarding Hardcore Improvisation and Psi (Magic) Amplifiers

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The same could be done using Magical Powers, though you would need enough points in a single ability to improvise such a working. For example, a mage could have Affliction (HT; Cone, 50 yards, +490%; Extended Duration, Permanent, +150%; Incapacition, Petrification, +150%; Magical Powers, -10%; Malediction 3, +200%; Selective Area, +20%) [120] as their core ability, take TK 20 (Based on Will, +20%; Magical Powers, -10%) as an AA, and improvise new Afflictions off their core ability (it also has the added bonus of being an Affliction, so it avoids the extra -2 penalty).
Even so, it'll need to be the same general type of Affliction - improvising a buff for your friends would take the -2 because you're going from 'an attack' to 'a buff'.

Also, the rules in Powers are actually quite restrictive as to what you can your power to default to. "There must be an uncontrived relationship between the special effects of the two abilities and if a power is involved, both abilities must belong to the power. Thus, only related abilities of the same power default to one another." is more restrictive than "It's a reasonable spell effect" is in most game worlds. Also, Sorcery doesn't have the bit where if it's impossible the GM might let you try anyway, costing you time and FP. Instead Sorcery suggests negotiating what the spell should look like if the GM doesn't like what the payer's come up with.

However I think the real advantage of Sorcery is that the levels also work as modular abilities, so you can improvise minor effects without effort or skill checks (and they don't have to be re-improvised each time). Innate attack spells are surprisingly affordable (ones suitable for a low-tech setting or basic self-defence, anyway) for the serious sorcerer.
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