Underscoring the inhuman minds of Uplifts, AIs and Bioroids

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

We've all seen and some have posted rants about non-humans played as humans in funny shells around here. So, makes me want to start this thread to brainstorm the various differences between humans and other sapients.

Now, I probably already posted too much on possible bioroid alienness, so I won't do that.

I've seen a charming case of an EI-SAI with a surprising combination of Honesty and Paranoia. That alone seems like something that differs both from normal humans and from typical PCs that it produces an impression of alienness all by itself.

And then of course there's the issue of sapient cephalopods, dolphins, raccoons etc. Yes, there are a couple boxes in Blue Shadow. But I'm looking for more ideas and fleshing out.

On consideration, in which I semi-agree with Patrick, is that too often the inhumanity is displayed by just lumping on mental disadvantages - Delusions, clearly 'stupidly' irrational behaviours etc. But Uplifts have a big enough share of disads already, so that's probably not the way to go.

In my own campaign (not THS), there's an IQ6 creature vaguely comparable to an octosap (though actually unrelated), and one of the ideas that I had was to emphasize that it primarily relies on vision, not hearing for communication. (It's kinda meh at hearing, but the point is it seeks symbols in its visual field most of the time, like humans are trying to hear words all the time.) Another aspect of totally non-phonetic communication would be a great distaste for phonetic writing systems, with huge preference for ideographic ones (and sign languages, of course).
Another trait that the creature shares with AIs is lack of a need to sleep - and I wonder how that can affect psychology. Also, having Field Sense and being familiar with electrical devices (but not implants!, I'm preparing to roleplay the creature's reaction to an implant-wearing cat as, roughly 'Whoa, why is this device moving like an animal?'.

Back to AIs, something to consider is the memory of always being an infomorph. I'm sure this is prone to produce a sentiment of slight indifference to physical damage - a body is easily repaired or replaced; it's an expense, a serious one, but nothing permanent. This, of course, can have both upsides and downsides.

Any other good ideas or comments?
Thanks in advance!

[thrash]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

On consideration, in which I semi-agree with Patrick, is that too often the inhumanity is displayed by just lumping on mental disadvantages - Delusions, clearly 'stupidly' irrational behaviours etc. But Uplifts have a big enough share of disads already, so that's probably not the way to go.

Since the default, no-Disadvantage mental state is that of a "normal" human, wouldn't any intellect that differs significantly from that state encompass a number of mental Disadvantages (or occasionally Advantages) by definition? Just as a non-human body plan is defined in GURPS terms by a collection of physical Advantages and Disadvantages that show how it differs from the human default.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by thrash

Since the default, no-Disadvantage mental state is that of a "normal" human, wouldn't any intellect that differs significantly from that state encompass a number of mental Disadvantages (or occasionally Advantages) by definition? Just as a non-human body plan is defined in GURPS terms by a collection of physical Advantages and Disadvantages that show how it differs from the human default.

Many things that are normal for humans are considered Features, and many differences are Features too.

The biggest example is probably the Neither Has Nor Can Spend FP feature. Others would be Night Vision (Bad Vision By Day) [0], Sterility [0], a different native gravity, pressure or temperature etc.

Likewise, there are many assumption humans can semi-safely make about each other that are likely inapplicable to nonhumans, even though they are not a net Dis/Advantage on their own.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Many things that are normal for humans are considered Features, and many differences are Features too.

You're quibbling: if the possible differences can be expressed as Disadvantages (negative CP) or Advantages (positive CP), they can logically include Features (zero CP) as well. The point is that mental Disadvantages/Features/Advantages are how GURPS represents differences from default human behavior.

[Flyndaran]

Gurps disadvantages are super extreme versions. Most people wearing glasses don't have bad sight mitigated level of bad sight. A truly alien creature might just have a boatload of mental features, perks, quirks, taboos, and nigh universal traits kind of like reverse taboos.
Also, individuals that seem on the surface more human might be hiding severe disfunction, because they aren't normal for their species.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Back to AIs, something to consider is the memory of always being an infomorph. I'm sure this is prone to produce a sentiment of slight indifference to physical damage - a body is easily repaired or replaced; it's an expense, a serious one, but nothing permanent. This, of course, can have both upsides and downsides.

This may depend on the infomorph's agency to replace or repair its hardware. Think of the family car in THE GRAPES OF WRATH, where there can be no hope of replacing the car if it is wrecked or damaged too badly, and the sacrifices the family makes to keep it going so they are have some slight means of self-determination. Likewise, an AI is unhindered by human frailty but it may be by human economy; a robot too expensive to repair or replace can still be kept doing something useful for a very, very long time.

In GURPS NEW SUN, an old man with a robot arm turns out to actually be an automated spacesuit missing the the helmet and one side of the torso that was "repaired" after a crash by putting a brain-dead man with complementary losses into it and setting up the neural interfaces to work the other way. "He" travels the debased world for many decades if not centuries looking for the technology to properly repair him or passage to a more "civilized" world. He ends up as a lone wagon driver, presumably because it does not require fine work (the fleshy hand is clumsy but reassures the animals) and no one can catch him asleep or visiting the privy.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

This may depend on the infomorph's agency to replace or repair its hardware. Think of the family car in THE GRAPES OF WRATH, where there can be no hope of replacing the car if it is wrecked or damaged too badly, and the sacrifices the family makes to keep it going so they are have some slight means of self-determination. Likewise, an AI is unhindered by human frailty but it may be by human economy; a robot too expensive to repair or replace can still be kept doing something useful for a very, very long time.

In GURPS NEW SUN, an old man with a robot arm turns out to actually be an automated spacesuit missing the the helmet and one side of the torso that was "repaired" after a crash by putting a brain-dead man with complementary losses into it and setting up the neural interfaces to work the other way. "He" travels the debased world for many decades if not centuries looking for the technology to properly repair him or passage to a more "civilized" world. He ends up as a lone wagon driver, presumably because it does not require fine work (the fleshy hand is clumsy but reassures the animals) and no one can catch him asleep or visiting the privy.

I can't decide if that character concept is grisly or awesome.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Keiko

I can't decide if that character concept is grisly or awesome.

Gene Wolfe's fiction is full of stuff like this, and eventually it becomes clear that they can be both at once, and three or four other things besides, like the above concept being a literary allusion to the Tin Woodsman, and there is also the in-continuity suggestion that the wretched teamster may be the original inspiration for such characters, since other copies of the future memoir in which he appears may have been scattered further into our past.

Also, in the very good Charles Stross' SATURN'S CHILDREN, the top-of-the-line sexbot heroine is tied to a railroad track by the villains and does not enjoy the prospect of getting just loose enough to be cut in half crosswise instead of lengthwise, leaving her a crippled wreck and who couldn't begin to be repaired for less than a century's wages at the best post-human-extinction job she could get if at all. Sometimes, immortality sucks.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

On consideration, in which I semi-agree with Patrick, is that too often the inhumanity is displayed by just lumping on mental disadvantages - Delusions, clearly 'stupidly' irrational behaviours etc. But Uplifts have a big enough share of disads already, so that's probably not the way to go.

I'm struggling with a somewhat similar problem in Sagatafl. How to have a sort of sliding scale of animal irrationaly in Familiars, where if the character spends extra currency when he bonds his Familiar, he can get one that's a slave to its instincts to a lesser degree, or to a much lesser degree, or not at all. I haven't been able to come with with a decent solution yet, let alone an elegant one. I do have some, but they're kludge-like.

But for GURPS, I think the game might be improved slightly by the introduction of something that's analogous to Sagatafl's Flaws, which impact-wise sit somewhere between Quirks and mental disads. Something in-between, usually worth -2 or -3 CP a piece, instead of -1 or -5, and understood as behavioural tendencies rather than as behavioural absolutes.

Sagatafl's Flaws almost always use "trigger rolls", somewhat similar to GURPS' Self-Control rolls, but with most characters having several Flaws (2-4 usually) that a lot of rolls.

If you dislike that, you might be able to tolerate a metagame workaround which says that each such Minor Mental Disad much be actively roleplayed once per session. Failure to do so gets a "mark" on the disad meaning it must be actively roleplayed three times in the following session. It must be understood that failure to actively roleplay once in a while isn't bad. That maybe the failure was because no opportunity to do so occured. But consistent failure, e.g. failing to thrice-play several marked ones, should be penalized, e.g. by reduced experience CP.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Gurps disadvantages are super extreme versions. Most people wearing glasses don't have bad sight mitigated level of bad sight. A truly alien creature might just have a boatload of mental features, perks, quirks, taboos, and nigh universal traits kind of like reverse taboos.
Also, individuals that seem on the surface more human might be hiding severe disfunction, because they aren't normal for their species.

Or severe hyperfunctions. Looks normal != is normal.

And of course I agree with the super-extreme versions thing.