What does the Humanoid Form enhancement for Diffuse actually do?

[Michael Thayne]

I'm puzzled by the Humanoid Form enhancement for Diffuse, found in Horror and Template Toolkit 2. I don't see anything about Diffuse in general, or Diffuse (Body of Swarm) more specifically, that suggests it includes traits like No Legs or No Manipulators. Based on that, I would have assumed that by default Diffuse beings are still humanoid. This is certainly how things like elementals are frequently portrayed in fiction. I can see write-ups being sloppy about including No Fine Manipulators or No Manipulators on ST 0 elementals, but some Diffuse elemental beings have positive ST (particularly water elementals, as well as earth elementals that aren't Homogenous). So what's going on here? I see three posibilities:

• The Humanoid Form enhancement is mis-named. It's not about merely being vaguely humanoid but being able to "pass" as a partiuclar type of humanoid from a distance. Though in this case it seems misnamed.
• Body of Swarm includes No Manipulators. Humanoid Form costs 50 points because it's really No No Manipulators. Though this seems to make Body of Swarm rather unappealing compared to unmodified Diffuse.
• All forms of Diffuse include No Manipulators. This raises the problem that because Humanoid Form is only for beings with Body of Swarm, that seems to imply other Diffuse beings can't "buy off" No Manipulators.

None of these answers seem totally satisfying to me, and I can't find any official word on which is right. Can anyone help me out here?

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I don't see anything about Diffuse in general, or Diffuse (Body of Swarm) more specifically, that suggests it includes traits like No Legs or No Manipulators.

H14's "can bite, sting, etc. for thrust crushing damage for your ST" is probably meant to imply that this is ALL you can do, and not the standard stuff like punch/kick or use weapons.

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Based on that, I would have assumed that by default Diffuse beings are still humanoid.

Yes, but I think the Body of Swarm enhancement changes that.

As far as I can tell, the +50% enhancement just makes this enhancement toggleable.

You should already be able to do this with the +10% enhancement Selectivity though, so I don't get the point either.

Instead of a toggleable enhancement (switching between humanoid and swarm) maybe it means a "best of both worlds" thing where you can do everything a human does while still getting whatever benefits Swarm gives?

I'm not sure I understand what benefits this +0% and +40% version of Body of Swarm give compared to Powers 53's +80%/+160% "Swarm" enhancements though.

The enhancements' similarity in names confuse me and I'd like to see some renaming done. Ideally each % differentce has a unique name more tailored to what it does.

+40% for cockroach/gnats mention "with full Infiltration" so I guess that's what it references, but Infiltration +40% is already a distinct enhancement here

"dispersed by injury equal to your HP" is basically a drawback, so what is the benefit which makes it 0% ?

B461 mentions hits are automatic (no attack or defense rolls) which is great if the swarm is attacking, but that works both ways (swarms don't get defense rolls) so I don't really know if it's necessarily a net benefit

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Plane

H14's "can bite, sting, etc. for thrust crushing damage for your ST" is probably meant to imply that this is ALL you can do, and not the standard stuff like punch/kick or use weapons.

This is a good catch but for me it raises more questions than it answers. What's the point value of removing this ability? Or replacing it with something like 1 toxic damage / second, for stinging animals?

[Refplace]

Well the Body of Swarm enhancement does specify made up of a bunch of tiny creatures. Also it includes Infiltration which has some specifications of its own such as not being able to shapeshift, stretch abnormally, or sprout new body parts. Not that those are all lower case so not referring to the advantages.
As a tiny creature you can defiantly have legs and manipulators - though being able to manipulate anything requires a higher enhancement.

So I would say it is perhaps a bit hefty at +50% [50] to disguise yourself in a limited way but that seems the intent.
By comparison Morph, Cosmetic, -50% is also 50 points and much better at disguise.

[whswhs]

The way that I would look at this is not that "you turn diffuse [but still humanoid], and then you choose to have your diffuse form be a swarm of tiny creatures." It's "you turn into a swarm [as described in the Basic Set], and the properties of swarms can be seen as game mechanically similar to a being that is Diffuse or Insubstantial [depending on how scattered you are]." As a swarm you already look like a huge clump of tiny creatures. Your natural state is that of a roughly circular or elliptical patch of mice or ants or whatever, or a roughly spherical or ellipsoidal mass of flying creatures; the enhancement lets you keep the properties of a swarm (including being effectively Diffuse or Insubstantial) but have enough coordination and cohesion to turn yourself into a humanoid shape (or some other shape, if your starting point is a nonhumanoid body plan—say, a swarm that looks like a huge centaur or spider or helicopter).

This suggests an interesting variation: what if you're a swarm that can take on a humanoid but quasi-two-dimensional shape by adhering to a surface? This might be modeled as having effectively neither Diffuse nor Insubstantial but Shadow Form. It would probably be less of an enhancement than full on humanoid form.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

The way that I would look at this is not that "you turn diffuse [but still humanoid], and then you choose to have your diffuse form be a swarm of tiny creatures." It's "you turn into a swarm [as described in the Basic Set], and the properties of swarms

I'm not sure what difference it makes how you look at it. All of that should fall under special effects. The actual mechanics of Diffuse shouldn't change unless you have enhancements and limitations. Looking at that advantage, Diffuse doesn't seem to have any inherent limitation to manipulating objects or otherwise exerting physical actions. Infiltration doesn't add one either. Swarm, at least while you are spread out, effectively makes you Insubstantial.

Does "Human Form" is allowing you to interact normally while spread out as a swarm? Otherwise, it doesn't seem necessary if you just have Diffuse with or without infiltration.

This suggests an interesting variation: what if you're a swarm that can take on a humanoid but quasi-two-dimensional shape by adhering to a surface? This might be modeled as having effectively neither Diffuse nor Insubstantial but Shadow Form. It would probably be less of an enhancement than full on humanoid form.

Shadow Form is a lot more vulnerable than Diffuse and doesn't have an existing "swarm" enhancement if you way to be able to spread yourself over vast distances. I'd still go with Diffuse + modifiers.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by whswhs

The way that I would look at this is not that "you turn diffuse [but still humanoid], and then you choose to have your diffuse form be a swarm of tiny creatures." It's "you turn into a swarm [as described in the Basic Set], and the properties of swarms can be seen as game mechanically similar to a being that is Diffuse or Insubstantial [depending on how scattered you are]." As a swarm you already look like a huge clump of tiny creatures. Your natural state is that of a roughly circular or elliptical patch of mice or ants or whatever, or a roughly spherical or ellipsoidal mass of flying creatures; the enhancement lets you keep the properties of a swarm (including being effectively Diffuse or Insubstantial) but have enough coordination and cohesion to turn yourself into a humanoid shape (or some other shape, if your starting point is a nonhumanoid body plan—say, a swarm that looks like a huge centaur or spider or helicopter).

This suggests an interesting variation: what if you're a swarm that can take on a humanoid but quasi-two-dimensional shape by adhering to a surface? This might be modeled as having effectively neither Diffuse nor Insubstantial but Shadow Form. It would probably be less of an enhancement than full on humanoid form.

Thanks. This raises some questions about how exactly Body of Swarm works, but at least it doesn't cause confusion for other creatures.

As for how Body of Swarm does work, if you took the host of flies from TT2 p. 48 and replaced the Affliction with Toxic Attack 1 (Melee, Reach C, -30%) [1], would it work exactly like the swarm of bees described in Basic Set p. 461? Or would you need to make further changes?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by naloth

I'm not sure what difference it makes how you look at it. All of that should fall under special effects. The actual mechanics of Diffuse shouldn't change unless you have enhancements and limitations. Looking at that advantage, Diffuse doesn't seem to have any inherent limitation to manipulating objects or otherwise exerting physical actions. Infiltration doesn't add one either. Swarm, at least while you are spread out, effectively makes you Insubstantial.

I don't agree that it all falls under special effects. As I understand it, Body of Swarm means that you are literally a swarm as defined on p. B461; you are a mass of small creatures, typically small enough to have effective ST 0 for manipulating things (see GURPS Template Toolkit 2). Such a mass is not going to have a cohesive shape; it will be a hex or similar shape if ground-based, or a globe or similar shape if aerial or aquatic. Possibly it might manage something simple like a column (think of army ants). None of this is inherent in Diffuse as such; you can be Diffuse and still human-shaped.

In effect, there are certain body forms, such as humanoid, avian, serpentine, or hexapod, each of which includes certain limbs and postures and such; and "swarm" is another body form, one that includes being made up of a lot of tiny pieces. Having that last body form implies being "diffuse" or "insubstantial" and thus can be defined ruleswise as a variant on Diffuse. But it has its own distinctive content, even if that doesn't change the point cost. That's why I made Body of Swarm a zero-point feature in Template Toolkit 2. See pp. 12, 14-15, and 43 in that book.

[Anthony]

GURPS has a bad habit of assuming that GMs and players can read the designer's mind. If Swarm is meant to have all of these side effects, it should say so in the description of the enhancement.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

GURPS has a bad habit of assuming that GMs and players can read the designer's mind. If Swarm is meant to have all of these side effects, it should say so in the description of the enhancement.

Yes, that's exactly what I was going to reply. The Swarm enhancement is pretty clearly defined as Diffuse plus the ability to spread yourself out over large distances during which time you're Insubstantial.

"Body of Swarm" would make a good meta-trait that includes all of those effects.