02-12-2014, 04:16 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Quote:
1) Up your game. Improve the characters, improve the challenges to match. 2) Drop them being SAD, and make them a Joint Task Force - they often pull together operators from different services, and can be accurately represented within your point budget and sense of gameability. 3) Take them off the line for a while. They were in SAD but retired, or took desk jobs, or were retired for PTSD (lowering Will!), or were otherwise put in a position where their condition and skills had a few years to wane to gameable levels. Then decide why they would be the ones to do the job - perhaps they were mercs, happened to be in the area, and the window for the operation was too thin to fly in a proper team. I actually like this option just because it gives more room for flaws in the characters - not actually being in the service any more, they could have all kinds of flaws that would not normally be allowed! |
|
02-12-2014, 05:30 PM | #22 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
You know what? You're absolutely right -- they're the closest thing we have to a real Batman.
Revised as 375 point characters, new IQ minimum of 12, new Will and Per minimum of 14. Take that, bad guys!
__________________
How to Be a GURPS GM, author Game Geekery, Blog (GURPS combat examples, fillable PDF sheets, rules summaries, campaigns and one-shots, beginners' intro) GURPS Discord, unofficial hangout and real-time chat |
02-13-2014, 06:25 AM | #23 |
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
For what it's worth, I've found it extremely difficult to properly represent any of the operational JSOC guys for under 350 points.
I even had a thread shortly after TS came out where the general consensus by the community (Doug Cole and Icelander too) was that a Delta/CAG/ACE Assaulter would probably need around a 21 firearm skill to be able to do in GURPs what they have to be able to do in real life. Found it! Here it is. So yeah, you are in "superhero/action hero" territory. You are in "real-life, highest level operator" territory. |
02-13-2014, 10:15 PM | #24 | |
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Quote:
|
|
02-13-2014, 10:25 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Oct 2009
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Quote:
The trick is that you shouldn't expect them to pull off the same tricks in actual combat as when showing off in training for a reporter, or at least you accept that in a real fire-fight there will be misses and possibly even friendly fire. A skill level of 21 isn't out of bounds for the best soldiers in the best special operations units operating in the prime of their career (because they are almost certainly the best shooters of their generation). But it's not typical or required. |
|
02-14-2014, 06:07 AM | #26 | ||||
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Quote:
Quote:
It's not tricks. It's life-or-death **** where you can't make any mistakes. I'm not saying these guys are infallible, but they do drill this type of scenario often enough that their chance of failure is going to be statistically small. Also, to be fair, the scenario described is not exactly something I would consider combat. And IRL, it would be the same way. Fire-fights suck. They are incredibly dangerous and unpredictable. That's why these guys leverage their planning and training in order to be able to execute without having to worry about a "fire-fight" where the bad guys get to take cover and shoot back. Quote:
Quote:
And for the record, that level of skill is REQUIRED to be a Delta shooter. If you can't shoot to that level, you don't pass OTC. One more thing. I was not implying in any way that a SAD SOG team would need to have Guns 21. I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page in regards to that. |
||||
02-15-2014, 10:12 AM | #27 |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
|
02-20-2014, 02:42 PM | #28 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Both games ran very smoothly and everyone seemed to have a really great time. I will post more, but for now I have updated the links in the original post to the entire player packets (character sheets, rules overviews, equipment management, and so on), as well as added a link to the GM Sheets I used when running.
__________________
How to Be a GURPS GM, author Game Geekery, Blog (GURPS combat examples, fillable PDF sheets, rules summaries, campaigns and one-shots, beginners' intro) GURPS Discord, unofficial hangout and real-time chat |
02-22-2014, 02:21 PM | #29 | |
Join Date: Jun 2011
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Quote:
First and most importantly, as safisher pointed out, the required skill level strongly depends on what GURPS actions you're choosing to use to represent the real-life actions. The difference between a double-tap every 1 second (AoA) and every 2 seconds (Aim then AoA) is massive in GURPS terms -- up to +6[1] -- which is the difference between skill levels of "not even professional grade" and "stands out among experts". It's not clear which set of actions are correct -- or whether GURPS even has a good match -- but it's certainly the case that there's by necessity a very large subjective component in translating reality into GURPS actions here. Secondly, the Skill 18/21 estimate seems to have a couple of omissions: - Each Targeted Attack bonus can go +1 higher (TS p.45 says to round up) - MP5 has Rcl 2, not 3 (HT p.123-124, no apparent errata) - Trademark Move: Half-Move and AoA (Determined) Double Tap (Vitals) (TS p.41, suggested on TS p.15) Each of these gives an additional +1 to hit in the scenario. With these additions, the required skill goes down to: - Guns-18: minimal miss chance in combat - Guns-15: minimal miss chance in training (what was observed) - Guns-12: minimal miss chance in combat with basic aiming - Guns-9: minimal miss chance in training with basic aiming Note that Guns-14/15 is the canonical estimate for specops soldiers (TS p.42), so the fast way of modeling their training (AoA with no aiming) appears to be fairly reasonable with these additions. (That's assuming you take into account the +3 non-combat bonus for perfectly stationary targets who will never shoot back, never blow up, never get backup, and are in a familiar environment, which seems reasonable. To get a minimal miss chance in combat, one option is to introduce new combat actions that split the difference between AoA and Aim+AoA to get two kills per 3 seconds.) [1] +3 base Acc +2 Acc from Very Fine(Accurate) weapon +1 Acc from match grade ammunition. A Very Fine gun's cost and time commitment is so minimal relative to specops training that it seems reasonable to expect. |
|
02-22-2014, 02:39 PM | #30 | |
Never Been Pretty
Join Date: Jan 2005
|
Re: Pre-Gens for Spec Ops - Opinions?
Quote:
|
|
Tags |
cia, special ops |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|