04-05-2017, 02:47 AM | #31 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
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Such a rule seems much more reasonable (even if it does mean that fright checks can be equally dangerous even if one character who is far braver than another). Quote:
The cases where the rule of 14 is inapplicable aren't very relevant. The only effect of the rule of 14 is to make all other fright checks equally difficult even if one of them is a minor horror and the other is a "dread master demon". Last edited by Andreas; 04-05-2017 at 02:52 AM. |
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04-05-2017, 10:41 AM | #32 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
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* Will + Fearlessness + Combat Reflexes + etc. Quote:
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04-05-2017, 01:33 PM | #33 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
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For a guy with Will 20, he rolls against 13 (Rule of 14 means you always fail on a 14 or higher) if he finds a single unremarkable dead body (from +6 if properly prepared for burial to +0 for a typical victim of violence), a cellar stuffed full of horribly mutilated corpses (-1 for large group, -3 for mutilation), the horribly mutilated body of his wife (-3 for mutiliation, -4 for loved one), or the severed head of his daughter (-1 for mutilation, -6 for Dependent). When dealing with monsters, everything from dog-sized creatures (+1 for size) to hideous monstrosities that blot out the sun (-1 for appearance, -6 for size) is equally frightening to him. Seeing a spirit in the garden out of the corner of his eye (probably +0, comparable to a momentary apparition in a mirror) and having said garden open up and spew out zombies (-7) are functionally equivalent. If he's investigating reports of cannibals attacking and devouring people in the city subway tunnels, a piece of graphic, realistic graffiti depicting such an attack (+0) has a roughly 15% chance of causing him to freak out... as does discovering his entire family are part of the cannibal cult, and so was he until he lost his memory of it (-7). That's... something of a problem. Last edited by Varyon; 04-05-2017 at 01:38 PM. |
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04-05-2017, 01:50 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Central Texas, north of Austin
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
My intuition has been that the rules of 14, 16, and 20 are all casualties of the bell curve distribution of the 3d6 mechanic.
Effective skills seem to be more meaningful toward the middle of the curve, rolls of 10-11. And less so when futile, toward or under 3, or of little challenge, toward or beyond 18. These rules would not be necessary in a linear d20 mechanic like D&D because an effective skill and difficulty target number are always in proportion and don't risk being additionally warped by being out of balance with a fixed bell curve. There may be some strengths to the GURPS bell curve, but since the curve doesn't automatically adjust to extreme scores, the scores have to be adjusted to fit the static curve. Hence the necessity of the arbitrary rules of 14, 16, 20. In fact, I would prefer to refer to these rules in a more descriptive way such as skill caps. (Somebody let me know if you have a better term.) I haven't fully analyzed all the strengths and weaknesses of the GURPS 3d6 mechanic, but the issue with the skill caps makes the system less elegant. I have to remember lots of exceptions and can't just trust the simplicity of the base mechanic. Don't get me wrong--I like GURPS, but this seems to be a known complication. I would also include another adjustment into the same category as these skill caps. There is an accommodation for regular contests when both contestants have extremely high or low scores (p. B349). The mechanic here is to shift both scores until one of them is at 10. No coincidence that that is at the middle of the bell curve. Hence, trying to make the rolls more meaningful. Finally, this is my intuition about the rules. If I have missed the actual reason for them, I could stand to be corrected. |
04-05-2017, 02:55 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
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04-05-2017, 02:59 PM | #36 | |
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Los Angeles
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
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04-05-2017, 03:17 PM | #37 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
It seems at least narratively weird that a character would be equally spooked by hearing a song his dead grandmother liked playing from apparently nowhere and having her show up in person along with all her dead friends to pinch his cheeks and eat him all up. Does that mean that the two events are equivalent to the character?
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04-05-2017, 04:54 PM | #38 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
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Granted, doing away with Rule of 14 simply shifts the goalposts (now that guy reacts to the anonymous funeral the same way as finding a closet full of horribly mutilated bodies), but that's just an issue with GURPS wanting 17 and 18 to always fail, simply because "zero chance of this happening" is narratively boring, and means rolling dice is without purpose. That's also a rather small chance of the character being affected (less than 1 in 50) so that such discrepancies aren't too terrible, as opposed to the significantly larger probability associated with Rule of 14 (right around a 1 in 6 chance). If you feel everyone everywhere should have at least a 1 in 6 chance of a freak out when confronted with anything that can cause someone without a relevant phobia to suffer such, Rule of 14 covers that. I don't feel that's accurate, however - last wake I went to didn't seem to have anywhere close to one in every 6 people get mentally Stunned upon seeing the deceased. |
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04-05-2017, 05:18 PM | #39 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
If the total bonuses to Fright Checks exceed a certain number then you probably shouldn't roll at all. Seeing a corpse at a funeral is at least good for the bonus for preparation, and probably some others. Regardless, it is a silly thing to call for a Fright Check for.
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04-05-2017, 05:54 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: The Rules of 14, 16, & 20
The rule of 14 on fright checks is only needed because will can exceed 13. If you're uncomfortable with people being fearless, why let them take that much will in the first place?
It also has somewhat dubious history, as the rule of 14 for will checks was invented in 3rd edition as a patch for self-control rolls in 3e being will rolls, meaning 16 IQ or Will plus a bunch of mental disads was highly abusive. |
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rule of 14, rule of 16 |
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