Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-08-2012, 06:19 AM   #41
PseudoFenton
 
PseudoFenton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Land of the Britons
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
The description of the Innate Attack skill seems to define the action required as a gesture, not a 'throw'. Otherwise, your hand would have to be empty as well as 'free'. Tell me how that does not include a mental aspect?
A gesture is still physically based, surely? I'm not suggesting every single missile spell is literally lobbed, considering many clearly describe the 'shooting' part differently. I'm just pointing out that its clearly using (all be it subtle) physical actions to hit and not more seconds of concentration or other mental based ones.

As Thaumatology points out, if magic requires precise gestures and perfect timing, then it could reasonably be DX-based - clearly missile spells are just much more DX based than IQ based for the 'doing' part, according to default Magery at any rate.
__________________
...like a monkey with a wrench.
PseudoFenton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:21 AM   #42
Maz
 
Maz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
And please understand.. I haven't been looking for a Blaster Mage.. I've been looking for a way to be effective in the role I've found myself in.
Then, from what you describe, I highly suggest Explosive Fireball.

Since it's explosive you can target the ground under the target instead of the direct target (+4 to hit) and still do normal damage. And if you hit the target can't use a normal dodge, but was to use a Dodge and Drop, leaving him vulnerable to others and waste time getting back up.
in addition, even if you miss, the attack might still deal partial damage as it scatters. And the extra energy used on it will always be worth it as the more energy, the more damage, even on a miss.
And then comes the fact that you can hit MORE enemies!


Sure it cost more FP, but this way it wont' be wasted by a miss or a dodge.
Just remember to put resist Fire on your companions if they are going into melee with the target ;)
Maz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:34 AM   #43
Dragyn
 
Dragyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Then, from what you describe, I highly suggest Explosive Fireball.

Since it's explosive you can target the ground under the target instead of the direct target (+4 to hit) and still do normal damage. And if you hit the target can't use a normal dodge, but was to use a Dodge and Drop, leaving him vulnerable to others and waste time getting back up.
in addition, even if you miss, the attack might still deal partial damage as it scatters. And the extra energy used on it will always be worth it as the more energy, the more damage, even on a miss.
And then comes the fact that you can hit MORE enemies!


Sure it cost more FP, but this way it wont' be wasted by a miss or a dodge.
Just remember to put resist Fire on your companions if they are going into melee with the target ;)
It's an option I've considered. But not the course my character is taking in the current combat. Instead of slugging it out with missile spells, he's taking to the air to add an additional "level" to the fight. He may cast Ex Fireball while in flight, though.. as with Hawk Flight, he can easily get out of easy arrow range, cast, and then swoop back in to 'fire'.

Of course, since he isn't really combat oriented, he might just swoop in and swat at the baddies with his staff as he goes by at 80mph.. that would be equally fun until the staff splinters.


You see, it isn't that I don't have other options, or that I'm incapable of doing anything but clicking the "Fireball Icon". It's that I think there should be some way to allow a mage to be effective with his offensive spells (all of them), without dumping loads of points into various physical skills (Innate Attack x 4, Brawling, etc).

If all I wanted was to be a blaster Mage, then I'd have bought IQ 13, One College Magery (Fire) 4, and gone to town.

My current plan is to buy the Psychic Guidance Perk (maybe for a couple spells) at the first opportunity, and then increase my IA skill as points and needs allow. Eventually the PG Perk will become obsolete, but in the meantime, I can still be useful to the party in a fight, instead of as a healer after the fight.

Of course that's relative. We have to survive the fight first.
__________________
Kevin's Outdoor, my online store.

<><
Dragyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:39 AM   #44
David Johansen
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

The things I see as making this discussion rather moot are Explosive Fireball and the spell that boosts Dexterity. Was it called "Dexterity"? I forget. Sure it's a little harder to get than Fireball but buffing your Dex before combat seems reasonable. Another way to go is a wand with an accuracy enchantment. Sure, it's a bit of work and you need some more prerequisites but you can always go and buy one for cash from your local Spell Mart.
David Johansen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:40 AM   #45
bcd
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Then, from what you describe, I highly suggest Explosive Fireball.
In my experience Explosive Fireball is almost completely pointless. Damage divides by 3 for every hex distance so pretty much any amount of armour will tend to negate the splash damage. If you aim it at the hex your target will tend to dodge out of that hex and get the divide by three, and if you aim at the body you might as well be casting a regular Fireball at half the energy cost.

I can see a niche for the mage with Explosive Fireball-20 who can use it for no energy cost to encourage select enemies to lie down on the ground, and it might be fine against weak unarmoured enemies at a distance. Overall however I wouldn't want to specialize on this spell at all.
bcd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:48 AM   #46
Dragyn
 
Dragyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
The things I see as making this discussion rather moot are Explosive Fireball and the spell that boosts Dexterity. Was it called "Dexterity"? I forget. Sure it's a little harder to get than Fireball but buffing your Dex before combat seems reasonable. Another way to go is a wand with an accuracy enchantment. Sure, it's a bit of work and you need some more prerequisites but you can always go and buy one for cash from your local Spell Mart.
If you happen to know the fight is going to happen, then "buffing up" may be an option.
__________________
Kevin's Outdoor, my online store.

<><
Dragyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:51 AM   #47
Maz
 
Maz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
It's that I think there should be some way to allow a mage to be effective with his offensive spells (all of them), without dumping loads of points into various physical skills (Innate Attack x 4, Brawling, etc).
My problem with allowing Magery to ad to it, is that Magery already is so extremely effective and already gives such a big bonus for such a low cost.
I would rather suggest a new Spell Slinger talent that cost 5 pts per level and includes all the Innate attack variants and possible also gives it's level in bonus to thee Will-check to avoid dropping a missile spell if injured... but this isn't in any book.
Maz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:53 AM   #48
DocRailgun
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Dex won't be a dump stat for wizards in the new version of That Other Game, either. Not only will it be important for having a high armor class, but it will govern hitting with wizardy/rogue-type weapons (staves, daggers, short swords, missile weapons).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
Face it... DX is a dump stat for Mages. Always has been, in every system I've played. But if you want to be effective with offensive spells in GURPS, you'd better rethink that.
DocRailgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:54 AM   #49
Dragyn
 
Dragyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Hampshire
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
My problem with allowing Magery to ad to it, is that Magery already is so extremely effective and already gives such a big bonus for such a low cost.
I would rather suggest a new Spell Slinger talent that cost 5 pts per level and includes all the Innate attack variants and possible also gives it's level in bonus to thee Will-check to avoid dropping a missile spell if injured... but this isn't in any book.
While it sounds good to me, it also verges on the semi-taboo Talents that add to weapon skills, as Innate Attack could be considered a weapon skill in its own right.

I would probably allow it in a game I was running, though.

And I say "semi-taboo" because IIRC, Pickaxe Penchant adds to Axe/Mace
__________________
Kevin's Outdoor, my online store.

<><
Dragyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:58 AM   #50
Phil Masters
 
Phil Masters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
Default Re: [Magic] Great Balls of Fire (that can't hit anything)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
My GM said that he didn't want a houserule. I have a rule that is not a houserule.
Ah, right. The "It's in print, therefore you can use it" principle.

The snag there, depending on your GM, is that GURPS doesn't really work that way. I mean, you're entitled to assume that a GURPS game uses the most central core rules in the Basic Set unless the GM specifies otherwise, but anything beyond that - including large chunks of the Basic Set - is ultimately optional. (Anything marked as cinematic, high-detail stuff like hit locations, the Magic and Psionics systems...) Stuff in supplements, such as the Psychic Guidance perk, is certainly optional. GMs are fully entitled to ban them as not suiting the flavour of the game. Honestly, they're pretty similar to house rules like "Magery adds to Innate Attack skill for spellcasters" which don't happen to have seen print anywhere - no better, no worse, except that Sean Punch has passed the printed stuff as not too glaringly silly.

And I'm happy to say that GURPS Thaumatology makes the borderline between house rules and "official" rules hopelessly fuzzy. No campaign can use everything in there; which bits a GM happens to borrow is a house ruling.

If your GM says that anything in print is allowed, then cool, show him Psychic Guidance and go have fun with it. I'd be fascinated to know how he handles the mass of Thaumatology, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
Right.. sacrifice the comrades. Got it.
Cruel though the term "meat shield" may be, it's fairly difficult to play any sort of traditional wizard type in many games without asking the guys with more hit points and better armour to get between you and the big ugly from time to time. Don't think of it as sacrificing your comrades; think of it as asking your comrades not to sacrifice a slightly fragile but utterly invaluable ally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
As others have pointed out, the GURPS Magic system simply isn't built for modern Computer-game or D&D inspired mages.
Well, not the core, standard magic system, no. One could have a game with quite four-colour-superheroic blaster wizards if one really wanted. However, that would mean the GM setting out to facilitate that by activating assorted optional rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
It's an option I've considered. But not the course my character is taking in the current combat. Instead of slugging it out with missile spells, he's taking to the air to add an additional "level" to the fight.
Just a thought, but do the opposition have ranged attacks? Because if they do, flying wizards notoriously have severe problems, and not just in GURPS. "He's flying, therefore he's a wizard, therefore he's a high-grade threat. Also, he's flying, which means that there's nothing between our missile weapons and his soft portions..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
He may cast Ex Fireball while in flight, though.. as with Hawk Flight, he can easily get out of easy arrow range, cast, and then swoop back in to 'fire'.
Trouble is, he's still in arrow range on the swoop in, if the opposition are canny. And they may have crossbows or something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragyn View Post
Of course, since he isn't really combat oriented, he might just swoop in and swat at the baddies with his staff as he goes by at 80mph.. that would be equally fun until the staff splinters.
Or one of the opposition interpolates a weapon in his path. Relative velocity works both ways...
__________________
--
Phil Masters
My Home Page.
My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.
Phil Masters is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dungeon fantasy, fantasy, innate attack, magery, magic, talent

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.