Highly skilled Shield warriors

[hal]

Hello folks,
Below is a quote from another thread, and rather than derail that thread, I figured I'd open this one up instead.

Originally Posted by weby

I am yet to see anyone even try to build up a high block score and the only reason the people carrying shields really do is raised dodge and parry.

People may want to reconsider that statement and build characters who have a high shield skill, and an even higher feint skill. This serves two purposes...

A 16 shield skill can be used to "shield bash" using the rim of the shield against an opponent's jaw. If a ST 11 fighter (thrusting damage = 1d6-1) rolls anything but a 1 for damage, the target of the jaw attack must save at HT-5 or fall down. Failing the HT-5 roll by 5 or more means that the target of the Jaw attack is also unconscious.

Once a shield is used offensively, it can then be utilized in feints. it is easier to win against a normal foe while having a 20 skill in feint, than against your foe with only a skill of 14 to 16.

Taking Targeted attack(eyes) with a spear is just plain unsportsmanlike. A spear skill of 14 + 1 for Weapon Bond, allows a successful eye attack on a roll of an 11 or less. If this attack is the follow up after a successful feint, the target of such an attack is going to be hurting.

Note that this presupposes a target that is not wearing jaw protection for his head gear. Eye strikes bypass all low tech armor. This kind of a fighter is not necessarily going to be easily defeated. Then again, armed only with a shield, spear, large knife, pot helm, gloves and boots - (ok ok, loincloth too), he's not going to be TOO hard to take out of the fight if you can get past his defenses.

Suggestion? Build a 150 point fighter who will be used for other things than just fighting, and have him go up against a fighter whose weapons and tactics will be somewhat different - wearing chain, using sword, etc. Assume TL 3 and starting wealth 1,000 and see where it goes. This kind of spear armed warrior could be outfitted with a struggling wealth disadvantage and still be within the $500 limit on equipment. The same could not be said for a chain armored broadsword user ;)

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by hal

If a ST 11 fighter (thrusting damage = 1d6-1) rolls anything but a 1 for damage, the target of the jaw attack must save at HT-5 or fall down. Failing the HT-5 roll by 5 or more means that the target of the Jaw attack is also unconscious.

Not quite. You have to make a knockdown roll whenever you are struck in the head for enough injury to cause a shock penalty, this is true. However:

• Injury, not damage, is what matters, so one's damage roll isn't the whole story. A target with DR on his face takes more ST to affect.
• The -5 applies for a major wound (injury over HP/2), not for "any injury at all." See p. B420.
• A crushing blow to the jaw, specifically, gives an extra -1 to knockdown rolls. See Martial Arts, p. 137.

Thus, the cases are:

1. Enough injury to the face to cause at least -1 in shock penalties (1 HP for someone with HP 0-19, 2 HP for HP 20-29, and so on): roll vs. HT to avoid knockdown.
2. Enough injury to the face to cause a major wound (injury over HP/2): roll vs. HT-5 to avoid knockdown.
3. Enough crushing injury to the jaw to cause at least -1 in shock penalties: roll vs. HT-1 to avoid knockdown.
4. Enough crushing injury to the jaw to cause a major wound (injury over HP/2): roll vs. HT-6 to avoid knockdown.

In all cases, failure by 5+ leads to unconsciousness.

[weby]

While it is possible to build a reasonable shield fighter, it feels kind of funny for most people to use 20 points in shield skill and 4 points in some weapon(or 40 and 4) skill as they kind of want to do more than thrust cr damage when they hit.

At least my players much prefer to do things like impaling to vitals or eyes so they rather use the other way around or 24(44) points in weapon skill.

In the current campaign the two characters with highest defenses are 24f/25f parry and 14/15 dodge with the shield user having the higher scores.

The shield user also has a theoretical block of 15, but cannot remember her ever having used it. As dodge gets to 15+3 retreat+2 acrobatics+2 extra effort=22 easily when needed against thing she cannot parry (and being a bit of coward, if she is hit seriously she tends to teleport away and heal before returning to battle)

To get the block to the same 22 you would need 22-2 extra effort-1 retreat=19 block. To do that for her would require 30 more points. And further block goes down for multiple blocks by 5, whereas dodge only loses the retreat so in reality you would need more to match dodge.

But certainly, it is possible to build an effective shield fighter. Maybe dual wielding shields.. :)

[D10]

Can I duel wield shields ?

[chandley]

Originally Posted by D10

Can I duel wield shields ?

Yes! Though it isnt as useful as you might like.

[Wavefunction]

In all this, don't forget shield slams.

If you're a shield-focused character, especially if you're dual wielding, you don't really need that much armour, you'll defend against the vast majority of threats. You should, therefore, have low to no encunmbrance, you therefore just have to make sure that your Move*HP is higher than the vast majority of foes, grab Weapon Master (Shield), if it's allowed/affordable, and you'll be knocking fools down left and right!

You might not do huge damage, but you can move round the battlefield with ease, and you can put enemies down, where they're ten times easier for your allies to deal with, and while they're dealing with them, you can defend them with the Shield Wall Training/Sacrificial Block Perks.

Assuming two shields and Weapon Master (Shield), your defences are going to be:

0/0/-3/-3/-5/-5/-8/-8/-10/-10 +Shield DB (I recommend a Large Shield)

It's not a bad tactic at all.

[ArchonShiva]

Also, they're are a lot of things that can't be parried, but very few that can't be blocked.

[Anders]

A great problem with parrying is that your weapon might break. Your shield normally won't.

[T.K.]

IF you're using additional blocks rules.

Otherwise you'll run very short.

[hal]

One question that comes to mind...

Medium shields weigh 15 lbs. I don't think that it should count as a 15 lb weapon for parry purposes vs a shield bash. Is there any other rule out there to say otherwise?