Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-06-2020, 11:11 AM   #21
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Yes, needs mechanical operations on beings who each have their own agenda.

A spirit can truly believe that she is operating as a tool of the one true god while mowing down innocent bystanders.

As I've pointed out before, ancestor worship is a big thing in some Eastern faiths. True believers would be delighted to make a tool to trap the souls of their loved ones, even if the result was only a vague answer each month that was loosely based on the memories of the departed.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2020, 01:51 PM   #22
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
I don't think the proposed revisions do much about the dualism. When you identify spirit guides as nice and the rest as nasty, or speak of hostility to life, or an affinity to death and darkness, I mean there aren't a lot of ways to read that as pleasant... <snip>

Bundle the nice and nasty unlife together. Rites affect them in similar ways.
I'm actually okay with life/death dualism, in itself. It's pretty natural that living creatures like us would identify with the Life side of the coin and see Death as antithetical or "evil", but that's a point-of-view thing. As long as it's ultimately portrayed as a yin/yang type deal, where Death is necessary to the existence of Life, I don't have any problem with it. People who wanted to turn off their brains and run "hackneyed, D&Dish" campaigns would be able to do that, and people who wanted a more nuanced take would also be able to have it.

That said, I would also be totally fine with having rites affect all unlife equally, because that makes sense from a "scientific" sort of perspective.

Last edited by Anomylous; 06-06-2020 at 02:00 PM.
Anomylous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2020, 08:29 AM   #23
Shadekeep
 
Shadekeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Aerlith
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomylous View Post
I didn't realize Mediumship was a talent... should probably have bought and read the book before opening my big mouth, huh?
Ha, well, it's not in the book. This is material that was omitted from the book. ^_^

I've done away with categoricals and all Rites are unaligned now. The only real duality is between life and unlife, because that's an actual physical distinction and not some kind of arbitrary categorical. Unlife has different physical properties than life. So there are two opposing rites in that regard - Consecration and Anathema (formerly Defilement) - but everything else is straightforward and neutral. So if you want to have a "good" cleric who uses Scourging because he believes it's the best way to get people to recognise their sins, have at it!

I've submitted my full list of "unlife apocrypha" to Steve for review before I officially share it. I don't want to put out anything that he considers conflicting or contentious. None of it will be TFT canon, it will just be a PDF of the material that folks can use for house rules. Once that comes back to me, I would like to submit it to you all as well for another round of commentary, before sharing with the wider world.
__________________
Shadekeep - TFT Tools & Adventures

Last edited by Shadekeep; 06-11-2020 at 12:06 PM. Reason: correction
Shadekeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2020, 11:58 AM   #24
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadekeep View Post
"unlife apocrypha"
Now that's a title for a musty yet ominous tome, if ever I saw one.

Edit to add: is it weird to compliment you on how well you just took a whole bunch of criticism, seeing as I was one of the ones criticizing? Lots of people would have just doubled down, spouted justifications, and refused to actually change anything, no matter how valid and constructive the critique was. Instead, you listened, thought about it, and then basically revamped your entire concept. So I'm impressed.

Last edited by Anomylous; 06-09-2020 at 01:22 AM.
Anomylous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 04:15 AM   #25
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadekeep View Post
Thank you. I really try to make my material work within the established TFT framework, since it's so finely balanced.
Yeah, I did a ton of work to balance Theurgy against wizards of equivalent XP levels, considering presumed ST/day, IQ levels, staff mana levels, and ST batteries, taking care that the ST/day "output" of a theurge should not exceed that of an "equivalent" wizard.

That wan't at all easy to do.

Making spells with Priest/Theologian prerequisites is an elegant alternative to making a new magic system.

I like both approaches. I think your clerical system will feel very different from magic based on spell availability, aside from other things.

My system has a different feel for different reasons, since it's based on ceremonies, appointed times, etc. and because now it also includes a standard way to make permanent effects.


By the way, I think it would be interesting to make other professions Transcendent besides just Priest and Theologian. Thieves, smiths, scholars, physickers, alchemists, etc. with certain prereqs might be able to learn to make certain magic items and/or learn certain spells at 1 point each, etc.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2020, 08:11 AM   #26
Shadekeep
 
Shadekeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Aerlith
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomylous View Post
Edit to add: is it weird to compliment you on how well you just took a whole bunch of criticism, seeing as I was one of the ones criticizing? Lots of people would have just doubled down, spouted justifications, and refused to actually change anything, no matter how valid and constructive the critique was. Instead, you listened, thought about it, and then basically revamped your entire concept. So I'm impressed.
I do take that as a compliment, and it's been a long slog getting to that state. The younger me would have gone off the rails by the second post. But I have come to learn there is wisdom in crowds if one takes the time to listen, and doesn't treat it as a personal affront.

If I'm being completely honest, there are some posters I simply ignore, either because I've found they don't post anything worth reading, or because they do not phrase their posts in a constructive fashion. The gaming world seems to have a higher than median preponderance of folks who are rather blinkered and socially maladapted. That your comments have been both useful and well-put made a lot of difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
By the way, I think it would be interesting to make other professions Transcendent besides just Priest and Theologian. Thieves, smiths, scholars, physickers, alchemists, etc. with certain prereqs might be able to learn to make certain magic items and/or learn certain spells at 1 point each, etc.
I agree, there's certainly scope for that. Magic can easily be equated with science or technology as a standard toolset, and each profession could leverage it as they see fit. It depends on the political and social clout of the Wizards' Guild as to how effective they are at suppressing such journeyman magic. But I suspect magic that is highly utilitarian to a given career would be permissible to them. Imagine builders with access to Adhesion, which could hold frameworks in place until physically joined, or town criers able to project with Great Voice.

The main counter argument I can muster for that is that learning magic itself may take a certain mindset, similar to how brilliant mathematicians often seem to possess an innate aptitude. So possibly commonplace magic is still too difficult for the average person and explains its relative rarity.
__________________
Shadekeep - TFT Tools & Adventures

Last edited by Shadekeep; 06-09-2020 at 08:20 AM.
Shadekeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 01:17 AM   #27
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomylous View Post
People who wanted to turn off their brains and run "hackneyed, D&Dish" campaigns would be able to do that
I felt the doc as offered wasn't just allowing that but encouraging it, and indeed close to mandating it.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 06:39 AM   #28
Shadekeep
 
Shadekeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Aerlith
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Got the all-clear from Steve on the materials, so the final version of the Unlife Apocrypha is released now. Let me know if you spot any typos or such.

https://shadekeep.com/files/Unlife_Apocrypha.pdf

Thanks again for the feedback!
__________________
Shadekeep - TFT Tools & Adventures
Shadekeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 06:57 AM   #29
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Why not just cast Astral Projection and go rap ghosts over the head with your staff until they cooperate?
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2020, 07:43 AM   #30
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Clerical Rites

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
By the way, I think it would be interesting to make other professions Transcendent besides just Priest and Theologian. Thieves, smiths, scholars, physickers, alchemists, etc. with certain prereqs might be able to learn to make certain magic items and/or learn certain spells at 1 point each, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadekeep View Post
I agree, there's certainly scope for that. Magic can easily be equated with science or technology as a standard toolset, and each profession could leverage it as they see fit. It depends on the political and social clout of the Wizards' Guild as to how effective they are at suppressing such journeyman magic. But I suspect magic that is highly utilitarian to a given career would be permissible to them. Imagine builders with access to Adhesion, which could hold frameworks in place until physically joined, or town criers able to project with Great Voice.

The main counter argument I can muster for that is that learning magic itself may take a certain mindset, similar to how brilliant mathematicians often seem to possess an innate aptitude. So possibly commonplace magic is still too difficult for the average person and explains its relative rarity.
If I were to stat out some other transcendent professions, I'd include some fluff about how some people, when they know certain prerequisite talents, gain fundamental insight which allows them to learn the spells listed for that set of prereqs.

Also, I'd make some special spells, like your Rites, that someone can learn only if they have those prereqs, particularly spells can be used only in conjunction with profession-oriented talents, like:
  • a cheaper, longer AID spell which would be practical to use on yourself
  • a spell that allows you a reroll (potentially for more than one turn)
  • a spell that improves outcomes (only if the action is successful)
  • a spell that reduces required time
Spells like these would be very useful for someone like a thief or a smith but not for a wizard. It seems to me that profession-enhancing spells should have long durations and be somewhat cheap if they're actually gong to see some use in a campaign. A thief wouldn't want to go down to 1/2 ST just to be more effective at picking locks. Also, a long prep-time like some of the Rites have seems reasonable too -- a mystical thief might need to meditate before starting a job...

There's plenty of folklore about magic like this, where mastery grants supernatural-like powers. Unarmed Combat, in particular, comes to mind.

Given that wizards are so powerful, giving heroes access to certain spells does seem like a natural way to balance things out. A staff-mana-like option might be good too, something kind of like "ki points" that you can use instead of ST.

This changes the feel of the world but I think it does fit well into Cidri.

Sorry wizards but I think this is only fair... :)
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.